Evidence of meeting #37 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airplanes.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tom Burbage  Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Welcome to the Standing Committee on National Defence.

This is our meeting number 37. Welcome, members.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study of the next generation of fighter aircraft.

We have with us as a witness from the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, Mr. Burbage, executive vice-president and general manager.

We're very pleased to have you with us. I'll give you 10 minutes for your opening remarks, and after that the members of each party will be able to ask you questions.

Thank you, Mr. Burbage.

3:30 p.m.

Tom Burbage Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It's a great pleasure to be here.

By way of introduction, I've been on the F-35 program for a little over 10 years now. I'd like to read my prepared remarks for the record, and then I look forward to taking your questions.

Let me first thank the committee for allowing me to participate in this hearing. I was hoping to host members of this committee at our facility in Fort Worth earlier this week for you to see it in person. I hope we can reschedule that visit at your committee's convenience, sir

This is a very critical program for all the nations that are involved. I use the word “critical” because it is critical to the United States and our close allies. As we move to affordably recapitalize our tactical air forces and our defence and aerospace industries, it important that we think of both of these together.

Before I get into specifics, it is worth a moment to reflect on the realities of the world today. The challenges we face as a global community are unprecedented. We operate as a coalition of nations with a common interest in preserving the ideals and way of life that are challenged on several fronts. No nation faces this threat alone, and none of us has operated either as isolationists or as a solitary force in any sustained conflict over the last several decades.

For many years, the sovereign nations of the world have operated similar front-line fighter aircraft, primarily those based on pre-eminent U.S. technology. This is evidenced by the CF-18 fighters that your air force operates today. Those aircraft have served us both well, but they are aging rapidly and they are not capable of remaining effective in the advanced threat environments of the future.

It's an important factor to consider as we make decisions that will affect our children and grandchildren. My five grandsons will be called on to defend my country at some point in the future, and my personal resolve in this program is to give them the best capability we can to assure their effectiveness, both in peacekeeping and, if required, in combat operations. Most importantly, we are focused on ensuring their ability to come home safely from any encounter.

In the early 1990s, the United States decided that the multiple modernization programs that each of our services were independently launching were unaffordable and not representative of the new world we found ourselves in. We're now in a world that demands joint service, coalition-based projection of air-power capability.

The joint strike fighter program was launched to develop a family of three airplanes, each uniquely tailored for the very different operational environments the three services face: conventional runway operations for the air force; small ships and expeditionary fields for the U.S. Marine Corps; and large catapult and arresting gear equipped aircraft carriers for the U.S. Navy.

Beyond that tailoring, the airplanes are identical, with the same engine, same mission system sensors, and common cockpits. When you sit in the cockpit of any of the three airplanes, you don't know which one you're in. This feature is very important to ensure real interoperability and dramatically reduced costs of procurement, ownership, and long-term operations by capturing the true economies of scale.

On October 26, 2001, Lockheed Martin was awarded the contract to develop the joint strike fighter following a highly contested and very expensive competitive process. That process included all the major prime contractors in the United States, and it involved building and flying prototype demonstrator airplanes. Canada was one of several observer nations during the competition. There is a reason the competition did not include other nations' candidate airplanes at the time; that is, there is simply no competing technology among any of the other fighter airplanes in operation today.

At that time, the United States and the United Kingdom were the only formal participating nations in this endeavour. Following the competitive contract award, close allies who were flying the U.S. front-line fighters were offered the opportunity to recapitalize their air forces as full partners in the endeavour.

Canada was the first nation to join the partnership--in February of 2002--and six other nations joined the project over the next eight months. The list of incentives offered to participating nations was unprecedented in the history of U.S. Department of Defense programs. It included industrial participation during the system development and demonstration phase of the program.

Participating nations were categorized by their level of financial contribution, with Canada being in the lowest tier, at about $150 million U.S. spread over 10 years. This contribution was a fixed cost, and it has been leveraged over a development program that is now approximately $50 billion U.S. Canada's costs have not increased despite significant additional U.S. development dollars that have been required over time. In return, the prime contractor, my company, Lockheed Martin, was asked to ensure that partner nations were allowed to participate on a best-value basis in the development of the F-35.

In December 2006, the Canadian deputy minister of defence, Ward Elcock, signed a multilateral agreement between all nine participating nations that advanced the partnership from the system development and demonstration phase into the follow-on phase for production, sustainment, and follow-on development. That new agreement dissolved the earlier one and put all participating nations on an equal footing.

Throughout the years of Canada's participation in the joint strike fighter program, the government--Liberal and Conservative alike--has supported continued participation. Each government evaluation recognized the benefits of participation and committed to the next phase. Through programs such as Technology Partnerships Canada and the strategic aerospace and defence initiative, the Government of Canada has recognized the national benefit in supporting industry to modernize its facilities to compete in the global market. That government support has positioned Canadian industry well to capitalize on the benefits the JSF program is offering.

Let me briefly describe those industrial benefits. All industrial opportunities from the F-35 are founded on competitive best-value principles, since all participation consists of direct work on all F-35 partner aircraft, including the United States', and not solely on the airplanes being procured by any individual country. That requirement assures long-term high-quality aerospace and defence work, provided industry can deliver on its commitments to provide competitive cost, quality, and schedule performance.

Over the past nine years, we've had a very close relationship with your JSF team from the Department of National Defence and Industry Canada. They've been true leaders and team builders among the F-35 participating nations. Together, we have identified key companies across Canada and matched them with development and production opportunities. When this activity is combined with the excellent work of our propulsion system contractors—who, just as an aside, are under a separate contract and not part of our contract—the potential total industrial return from the F-35 is unprecedented in the history of Canadian military procurement.

The F-35's consolidated industrial participation plan reflects the true benefit of the best-value economic model. It also offers secondary opportunities in a global market as your industry becomes more competitive and leverages relationships born through collaboration on the JSF program.

Let me give you a few specifics. We placed our first Canadian F-35 contract with Honeywell Canada in Mississauga, Ontario, in late 2001. When our factory began F-35 operations, our advanced tooling concepts included innovations from Handling Specialty, an excellent Canadian company. When the F-35 made its first flight in December 2006, Canadian parts were on board and contributed to making that flight successful.

To date, we have placed $319 million U.S. in contracts with Canadian industry, not including our propulsion brothers. Today, we project Canada's industrial plan for the production portion of the program to substantially exceed the cost of Canada's procurement of the F-35, which is the basis for traditional industrial regional benefit expectations.

As Canada begins early preparation for the arrival of the F-35, our teams are now beginning to focus on delivery of sustainment. Next week we are conducting a Canadian industry summit in Fort Worth to help industries from across Canada better understand their capabilities to perform maintenance and repair work on the F-35. The autonomic logistics global sustainment strategy will provide substantial cost savings in through-life cost while delivering full operational capability here in Canada.

To conclude my prepared remarks, Mr. Chairman, it may be worth taking a closer look at the program through the lens of the Canadian value proposition. Canadian requirements are the responsibility of the Canadian Chief of the Air Staff, but from the perspective of the F-35 program, they're both national and coalition based. The F-35 introduces the integration of revolutionary new technologies of stealth, integrated avionics, advanced sustainment, and interoperability, capabilities that don't exist today in legacy fleets.

The inherent intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities of this next generation of sensors will contribute to Canada's national sovereignty and defence objectives over the vast expanses of Canada and will provide a critical node on the security internet of Canada's integrated defence infrastructure. The multinational development of the F-35 also allows Canadian Forces to seamlessly operate within coalitions if and when required. There is simply no other airplane today that offers these capabilities.

The development of the F-35 has been a monumental challenge and has experienced both successes and setbacks, all of which have been widely publicized. Canada is buying only one of the three variants and is not sharing the technical or cost risks associated with the system's development and the demonstration of this revolutionary capability. The significance of these facts should not be discounted, as there are no unique Canadian development risks or costs, which often have been negative attributes of other acquisition programs.

The U.S. Air Force variant of the F-35, which is also the Canadian variant, has proven to be very productive and reliable during its initial flight testing. This has increased our confidence that the F-35 will achieve its ultimate goal of fulfilling your national requirements and ensuring seamless integration in the coalition air power capability if required.

Today, all three variants of the airplane are in production and flight testing, a substantial factor in achieving the affordability objectives of the program. We recently signed a production contract for our fourth production lot of 32 F-35 airplanes. Lockheed Martin accepted the associated risk in assuming that contract under fixed-price conditions two years earlier than the F-35 acquisition plan. We believe this is a good faith demonstration of Lockheed Martin's commitment to affordability in the procurement cost of the airplane.

Our production backlog now stands at 63, with airplanes destined for five services in three countries. Canadian industry is participating in the manufacturing of key parts for all of those airplanes and is on track to capture program opportunities that far exceed the procurement cost projected for your eventual purchase. The industrial opportunities are real and are happening today, years ahead of a contract to actually buy the airplane. There has never been a program offered to coalition allies that recapitalized the front-line military fighter fleets while simultaneously recapitalizing the critical high-technology aerospace and defence industries that define leading-edge technology across the globe.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for this opportunity. I would now be pleased to answer your questions.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Thank you very much.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Wilfert for seven minutes.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Burbage. We appreciate your attendance.

I want to point out first of all that the official opposition supports the replacement of the current CF-18s, and we obviously have some very specific questions, which I will put to you as succinctly as possible. If your answers could be succinct as well, it would be helpful.

Recent news articles have cited U.S. Pentagon reports that Canada would receive only $3.9 billion worth of work on the joint strike fighter if it purchases the plane. Are you prepared to contractually guarantee Canadian industry benefits equal to 100% of program costs over something less than you projected over the life of the program, equalling 50 years?

3:45 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

Sir, I'm not aware of any Pentagon report that references any of the industrial values of any of our partner countries. But I repeat the best-value model: we don't give up-front guaranteed contracts, but we involve industry much earlier than has historically been done. When you extrapolate the benefits of the work already under contract for Canada, and you add to it the strategically sourced work that we've already identified for Canada, this is all work that is Canada's today but is Canada's to hold on to and perform to, and the value of that work is at the value of the procurement contract for the airplanes. When you add into that, the additional opportunities that we've forecasted for Canadian industry, that amount doubles.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

We can certainly follow up with you on that.

Given the dynamic nature of your program, may I ask you, sir, how can you reliably quote an aircraft unit price today given that the Canadian JSF contract is not planned until the 2013 timeframe at the earliest?

3:45 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

The cost of the airplane is a complex factor, because you need to look at the cost of building infrastructure and the cost of sustainment. We're just talking about the costs of the airplane. They tend to come down a cost curve, which reduces with time and with volume.

Today, all nine nations have given us firm planning figures for their production ramp rates and for the production volumes we're going to experience over the next few years. So we know what our costs are projected to be and the timeframe in which Canada will be buying the airplane. When we extrapolate our costs out, Canada's procurement is actually at the lowest point of the cost curve. This item will be called a future low-rate initial production lot. At that point, the airplane will be at its lowest cost and beyond its average cost.

Today, the airplanes are more expensive. We're buying far fewer of them. As we increase the volume and increase the annual quantities, the cost comes down. We know where the costs are today; we just took a fixed-price contract. We can extrapolate that out using the quantities we've been given to plan against and project what the cost of the Canadian airplanes will be.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Through the chairman to you, sir, if we look at the expected delivery date of 2016, I understand that some of Canada's F-35s will be part of what's called a low-rate initial production, phase 4, while others won't.

Could you describe to the committee the difference between an LRIP, the low-rate initial production, airplane and those that will be produced during the full production phase? Does this mean that the earlier models will need future modifications and will they be at the same operational level as the others?

3:45 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

That's a very good question, sir.

Now, the period of time when there is a risk of modification is during the flight tests, when we're still discovering things with the airplane. That will be long past by the time Canada takes delivery of her airplanes.

We talk about low-rate initial production. It's an acquisition term used in the United States that says the United States is not permitted, by acquisition law, to go to a multi-year procurement until completion of operational tests. So at the time the operational test is completed, at that point, the United States will be able to buy airplanes in either three-year or five-year increments instead of annual increments. So during the years when we're buying the airplanes one year at a time, that's referred to as low-rate initial production.

I'd like to make one last comment, sir. In the year that Canada is buying, we are building over 200 airplanes that year. It's not “low rate” by anybody's definition in terms of the dictionary, but it's still termed low rate because we're not in the multi-year yet.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you for that.

I have a quick question, sir. If the Canadian government decided to hold a procurement competition to determine who would receive the contract to replace Canada's current fighter jets, should we expect the F-35 program to participate in such a competition?

3:45 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

That is a government-to-government issue. Lockheed Martin does not contract directly for these airplanes. It's all done through a government consolidated buy. One of the great buying powers of being part of the project is that when Canada buys two airplanes or four airplanes they're buying them in a total procurement annual buy of several hundred, so you have the leveraging power of that. But it's not up to Lockheed Martin as to whether the F-35 is allowed to compete in a competition. That's a government-to-government issue.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

There is an issue that has come up. For our air bases, particularly In the north of the country, the weather in those regions is sometimes difficult to extreme. In terms of educating us, can you tell us whether the F-35 is suited for operating in the extreme weather conditions of the north?

3:45 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

The engineering requirements, which are part of our contract, are written around the most austere operating environments--both hot and cold--in the world. They were written specifically by the three U.S. services that have to operate aircraft in those environments, and the requirements of the partner nations were integrated into that. Long before you take delivery of it, we will test the airplane down to temperatures that are both well above and well below what you'll see in operational service.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

There's another issue that comes to mind here. Can you give some clarification on the procurement by the Israeli government? The media have reported that Israel has purchased 20 F-35s and will be receiving guaranteed work for the equivalent of 150% of their acquisition, which seems quite significant, even though Israel is not a financial participant in the MOU.

3:50 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

Yes, sir. Israel is the first country to come through a different channel, which is the foreign military sales process. They had been a monitor and a participant in the program, but not in the same category as the partner nations, for the last several years--since 2003, in fact. By coming through that channel, Israel now exercises a different method to procure the airplane. There are no guarantees in the Israeli work.

The only article I saw on this was in the Defence News . It misquoted the program and was later retracted. Israel's industry gets to compete just like everybody else's does. There is no work that has been identified for Israel that was in any of the partner industrial plans.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

There's no guarantee of up to 150%?

3:50 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

No, absolutely not.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Thank you very much. That's it.

Now I will give the floor to Monsieur Bachand.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to welcome Mr. Burbage to the committee.

Can you hear me, Mr. Burbage?

3:50 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

I can hear you.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

First of all, Mr. Burbage, I would like you to know that we, the members of the Standing Committee on National Defence, are very disappointed that we were unable to travel to and visit your facility in Fort Worth. I hope that your invitation still stands for a later date.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, I think we should discuss that again. I think the committee should visit that facility, and that as many members as possible can be part of that visit, because this is important.

I have two questions for you, Mr. Burbage, and they have to do with high technology and Canadian content.

Are you prepared to share with Canada the property rights and copyright associated with this advanced technology? Will Canadians have access to complete information or the entire high tech package?

Can you answer those questions?

3:50 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

The F-35 is designed to be operated in Canada and sustained almost exclusively by Canadian industry. There may be some areas where some assistance would be required from the U.S. and from Lockheed Martin as a prime contractor.

We will be operating under a performance-based environment, which means that my company, as the prime contractor, will be responsible for guaranteeing delivery of availability to the Canadian Air Force. We will be monitoring and managing where we need to, but the intent is that maintenance, repair, overhaul, and those kinds of things will all done by the Canadian Forces or Canadian industry.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

If I'm not mistaken, the contract will not make reference to the International Traffic in Arms Regulations.

3:50 p.m.

Executive Vice-President and General Manager, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program Integration, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Tom Burbage

Lockheed Martin doesn't control ITAR; the U.S. government does. Everything that we're doing inside the sustainment plan for Canada and for all the partner countries is done under the constraints of ITAR. There's not an issue there.