National Defence Committee on Dec. 7th, 2010

[Antony Ogilvy]

No, sir.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

This is a first.

[Antony Ogilvy]

Yes.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay.

Do you have a question?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

We'll yield our time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

I will give the floor to Monsieur Bouchard of the Bloc Québécois.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Ogilvie, and thank you for being with us today. Welcome also to the colleagues you have here with you.

When you were talking about economic benefits, if I understood correctly, you said that, for every dollar of the purchase price, there would be a dollar in economic benefits. That's several billion dollars in benefits, given that we are talking about a contract worth several billion dollars.

I won't go over that again, because you have answered the question. But I would like to know which companies in Quebec and Canada you are partnering with, or which companies in Quebec and Canada could participate in equipping, designing and building your aircraft.

[Patrick Palmer, Executive Vice-President, Head of Saab Technologies Canada, Inc., Saab]

I have just a comment on the economic benefits. We will commit to 100% IRB. But more important than that is our technology transfer program--what we're willing and what we're able to do and what we need. As a Canadian taxpayer, I understand that our customers need complete control of their destiny as they move forward. The economic benefits to Canada will be far in excess of the IRB benefits to Canada, some of which are very hard to quantify.

When we look at the benefits to industry, we've had discussions with some industries in Quebec as well as in other regions of the country. At this time it's not right for me to mention the names of those industries. Obviously you can imagine that for the aerospace industry and some of the manufacturing industries, as well as some of the simulation and training industries and things like that, there would be huge benefits within Quebec as well as in other regions of Canada.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

You know the numbers, you read the media, you know the contract and you know how much has been allocated for the purchase of the 65 F-35s. Do you know how many jobs would be created if your company were chosen? Would they all be in the high-tech area or in operational areas, areas other than high-tech, that is?

[Antony Ogilvy]

I think we would prefer to look upon this as a transfer of very high-technology jobs into your industry rather than lower-technology manufacturing, but we would be very happy to discuss with all of your industries what you would wish.

Our belief is, and from our experience, countries would normally prefer to have the high-technology growth, and grown in their own countries. That's what our intention would be, sir. The jobs we would offer would normally start at high technology and go up from there, rather than high technology and down.

[Patrick Palmer]

If I could offer an amendment to that, or some additional information, the jobs would span both elements. The jobs would span the manufacturing environment, but what we're really concerned about are the long-term jobs and the sustainable jobs, and those are the high-tech jobs that will take this thing through sustainment for the next 40 years. So the benefits would obviously accrue to both industries.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

One of your competitors said that they could have orders for 3,000 to 5,000 aircraft. What number is your company looking at? What contract possibilities do you have at the moment? How many aircraft are you planning to design and build? Do you have an idea of the number?

[Antony Ogilvy]

We currently have 265 aircraft produced and in service. Our estimates are based on where we are operating in terms of campaign work in India and Brazil, Norway, Netherlands, Denmark, Malaysia, Switzerland. Our expectation is that we will take a market share to give us a total export buy of not fewer than 500 aircraft in the next ten years. We would look, therefore, to a total fleet size of approximately 750 Gripen NG over the ten-year period we're talking about.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

One of your competitors mentioned that there was a delay with their fifth generation fighter. Do you know of any delays with your fifth generation fighter and can you express those delays in years? Are you one year behind, two years, three years, five years? I would like to hear your views.

[Antony Ogilvy]

We have no delay in our program, sir. In fact, we're ahead of our development program for the next-generation fighter. We can confirm that we will meet the in-service dates, as required by the Canadian air force, of 2016. We have no delays at the present. We foresee no delays in the program.

It is a comparatively straightforward program we're embarking on, to take the aircraft from its current state to the next-generation capabilities. It is a low-risk program and is proceeding exactly as we predicted. In fact, we are slightly ahead, as we lay up the aircraft for two months before moving on to the next phases. We are slightly ahead of our program.

Would that be correct?

[Peter Ringh, Technical Director, Saab Gripen Marketing, Business Area Aeronautics, Saab]

Yes.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I have one more quick question.

I am sure that you have done simulations with your aircraft and with your competitors' aircraft of the same kind. Could you say a few words about your competitors and about the simulations you have done with your aircraft?

[Antony Ogilvy]

May I ask you, in what sense do you mean simulations: operational simulations, operational scenario simulations?

If that's your question, sir, yes, we have done many, many simulations of operational scenarios for all three roles that we embark on: air defence; air-to-surface, sea and land; and reconnaissance. We do these and have done these in many regions and scenarios globally, worldwide. In fact, we have looked at the Arctic situation you face here in terms of our range and endurance, what we could expect to offer from the aircraft. Behind our statement that we could comply and meet your requirements, we have done simulations to ensure this is correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I will give the floor to Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you, gentlemen, for your most intriguing presentation.

First of all, on May 27--and I was there--the defence minister said in the House of Commons that there would be an open competition for the successor to the F-18s, this despite the fact of Canadian participation in the JSF development program.

Were you aware of that statement, and did you take it the same way as I did, that you'd get a chance to participate?

[Antony Ogilvy]

We took it then that it would be an open competition for the replacement aircraft, yes, sir.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

And we were also told during the committee hearings that the statement of operational requirements was produced some time this spring. In September we saw the high-level capability requirements document.

Were these documents made available to you by the Government of Canada, saying that's what they were looking at and asking if you were willing to participate?

[Antony Ogilvy]

No, sir.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You've talked about your air defence capability, air-to-surface, and air surveillance. I think those are the three roles you're talking about. Is that what the multi-role fighter consists of, or is there more?

[Antony Ogilvy]

Basically, sir, yes.