Evidence of meeting #41 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sar.
3:20 p.m.
Chairperson, Gander International Airport Authority Inc.
I think our overall criterion is to provide the best search and rescue possible, and to that end we have had conversations mainly with the military.
Mr. Simms, of course, is our local representative. As a board, we have never had any conversations with the industry itself.
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
I understand that the number of missions the SAR technicians have to undertake is increasing in part as a consequence of the rigs offshore. So does it not stand to reason that you would reach out to see whether or not they'd be willing partners in this as well?
3:20 p.m.
Chairperson, Gander International Airport Authority Inc.
It would make sense, but it hasn't been done yet.
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier
Thank you very much.
I will give the floor to Monsieur Paillé.
I understand that you will share your time with Mr. Bachand.
3:20 p.m.
Bloc
Pascal-Pierre Paillé Bloc Louis-Hébert, QC
Good afternoon, everyone. I don't quite know who to address my question to, but here it is.
We have talked a lot about fishing boats, but I guess that, for the past few years, there have been more cruise ships along the coasts. If there was an accident involving a number of people, what would be the capacity for saving them? Do we have the capacity to save three, five or seven people? If a ship with a thousand people on board was in trouble, how complicated would it be to help them?
3:20 p.m.
Deputy Mayor, Town Council of Gander
Thank you for the question.
I guess the only portion of that I can answer, as I referenced in the bit of homework we have done on it so far, is that the Cormorant, as it stands right now, can take up to 12 stretchers. I don't know what its capacity would be beyond that, in terms of the number of people you could put in it in an emergency.
I understand that you folks were up this morning and saw the helicopters first-hand. You know there's not a lot of room in them. So if you were to have a big catastrophe with a cruise ship.... We also referenced Marine Atlantic and their crossings across the gulf and how important they are--that's our trans-Canada highway, our link to Canada, and it's very well used. So if one of those major vessels were to go down, I think our province would be in trouble.
3:25 p.m.
Chairperson, Gander International Airport Authority Inc.
If I could add to that, this morning Major Reid alluded to the maximum number of people you could get on the Cormorant. I think with people standing he said it was about 20 to 24. Of course, that would depend on where the cruise ship was. You could take 24 people, but if there were stretcher cases, people would have to be standing. Then he would have to get back to shore.
So the time element for a huge cruise ship would be very testing. Then you would have to bring in other resources--ships that were nearby, and helicopters. With just the one stand-by we have, we would not be able to cope with the task.
3:25 p.m.
Fisherman, As an Individual
There is the search and rescue auxiliary. I don't know the exact number, because I wasn't prepared for this to come up today, but there are hundreds of vessels around the island that are capable at practically any time--not in the winter; there's not so many. In the summer, if there were an accident out there with one of those big cruise ships, I'm sure there would be lots of vessels around that could get there. So there's the coast guard, the search and rescue auxiliary. I'm a member, and there's a lot of members.
Thank you.
3:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I have here the report that the National Research Council was asked to prepare. The council was given constraints at the outset and was asked only how to consider the maximum speed of a new platform, of a new aircraft. The National Research Council indicated that there were other issues. I think that they are the same ones you indicated. Where are the bases? What is the standby posture? Where will they be kept in the meantime? How will they be crewed?
It's easy for me to understand that your situation is similar to the one in the high Arctic, where not a lot of incidents occur. But they are far away from actual bases. Unfortunately, National Defence kept the bases where they are because of its operational needs.
I think that I've clearly understood what you are saying. We need to see whether the deployment capacities are located where they could best respond to a greater number of incidents.
The speed of the aircraft is not the issue. If an aircraft in Winnipeg needs to go and rescue someone in the high Arctic and needs to travel thousands of kilometres, clearly it will take more time. So, it's not a matter of speed. I find that the department limited the mandate of the National Research Council.
The way you see it, we should instead consider the location and method of operation. The aircraft need to be situated in the best location so that they can get to the incident site as quickly as possible.
I think we agree.
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier
Thank you, Monsieur Bachand.
I will give the floor to Mr. Boughen. I know you'll share your time with Mr. Hawn.
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Mr. Chair, let me add my voice to that of my colleagues in welcoming the panel here this afternoon. We certainly appreciate the time it takes to meet with us, and we appreciate your input.
We've heard that training personnel, fixed-wing aircraft, and shorter response times are all issues that you would like to see addressed, as well as others. I'd like to hear from the panel. If you had to settle on one issue to enhance the operation as it now exists, what would that one be?
3:25 p.m.
Deputy Mayor, Town Council of Gander
Thank you for the question. I guess I can start.
It's been referenced in some of the previous studies. I know we as a municipality, and more importantly provinces, have been talking about it for years. I think it would be the addition of fixed-wing. As I referenced, we're the only unit in the country that doesn't have a fixed-wing stationed with helicopters. It doesn't make sense.
3:25 p.m.
Director of Marketing, Gander International Airport Authority Inc.
And the independent assessments have basically said that is the best investment in terms of improving response times. It's tied to a fixed-wing fleet.
3:25 p.m.
Chairperson, Gander International Airport Authority Inc.
Just going on what Major Reid said this morning, he would love more assets in order to reduce the response times. Personnel is a big thing.
In regard to the fixed-wing aspect of it, in my conversations with the boys of 103, when they're working at night.... You referred to the flare situation. There have been occasions--and this is anecdotal; I don't have any evidence. There have been occasions where the Hercules is behind, depending on where the incident occurs, because it has to come from Greenwood and it's at night.
The boys of 103 could be there in a very short space of time. To generate the Herc and get him to catch up and drop its flares, on occasion that has delayed the exercise. Major Reid said this morning that they turn up coincidentally. Yes, they do. But there have been occasions because they're not co-located. Again, in Gander, if it's north of Gander, you have the problem of the Herc arriving later than the Cormorant. Having them co-located would be rather nice.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I have a couple of quick things. Referring to the 103, just to get it on the record, their average response time in 2010, when they were on 30 minutes, was 19.5 minutes, and their average response time when they were on two hours was 50.7 minutes. Those are the “you shall not be longer than” times. Obviously, they strive to get airborne as quickly as possible, and they do a pretty good job.
To Mr. Paillé's point, is there any way that anybody could ever cater to the sinking of a 5,000-person cruise ship and have adequate resources to deal with it? Mr. Moffitt.
3:30 p.m.
Chairperson, Gander International Airport Authority Inc.
Highly unlikely. Really, you're going back to Titanic days.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Yes. You would need a couple of aircraft carriers in the vicinity.
3:30 p.m.
Chairperson, Gander International Airport Authority Inc.
That's right. You would just have to be totally reliant on what's in the vicinity in terms of ships.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Hopefully, you would have enough life boats, unlike the Titanic.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
That's all I have, Mr. Chair.
I personally want to thank everyone, and I'm sure the other committee members feel the same way.
Thank you very much for your input. It was worthwhile; there's lots to chew on there. And I know we all appreciate it.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier
I want to thank you for being with us this afternoon. It will be useful to our committee. If you need to refer to any of the documents or anything like that, don't hesitate to contact the clerk. If you want to add precision to your testimony, you're welcome to do that.
We'll suspend our work for five minutes and then come back.