Evidence of meeting #43 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was helicopter.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
I was going to ask you for a sneak peek, or for your gut instinct on this one, as the vernacular goes. Are you able to enlighten us as to what you think is going to be in this report? You say it's going to be meaty, but....
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
No, I'd have to be clairvoyant to do that. Seriously, they're going to look at the real causes of the accident, and not just the fact that the titanium bolts broke. They've already told us that. They will go into much broader matters, I suspect, as well. They may also go into things that overlap with what I've done.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
I have 30 seconds.
I love St. John's. It's a great city.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Very quickly, can I get you to respond to that as well? Comments were made about the harsh climate here in comparison to Australia, and I'm very interested in the international comparisons that you use. In other jurisdictions, would you say that there's more of a private element involved in search and rescue operations?
President, Seacom International Inc.
I have two responses. First, the private element involved is from a contracting point of view; in other words, the federal government contracts a service out to Bond Offshore Helicopters or somebody like that. The second response is that a country like Australia has a warm climate. There are lots of fishermen out there all the time. There are always boats readily available. There are lots of helicopters and lots of tourists. We don't have that in Newfoundland. In St. John's we don't have 50 helicopters waiting around to launch; they do.
Conservative
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
You'll need your translation devices because I'll be speaking in French.
Do you guys understand French? No? How about our honourable guest?
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
Well, years and years ago, when I did an undergraduate degree, I wasn't too bad, but that was a long time ago.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
If you want to be a “right honourable” at the Supreme Court, you have to speak both languages.
First, I would like to thank our guests for being here. I feel they gave a great presentation that will be useful to us.
I will first ask Mr. Wells some questions.
Mr. Wells, as members of Parliament, we are used to submitting our reports and recommendations to the government. We then expect the government to respond to our recommendations and give us an answer within a fairly reasonable timeframe.
If I am not mistaken, your commission of inquiry was set up to make recommendations to the C-NLOPB, the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board.
Could you tell me who is on the board of directors of this organization?
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
There is no question my recommendations were to the C-NLOPB. I also made observations that I hoped might interest a wider audience, but the recommendations themselves went to C-NLOPB.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Who is on the board of directors of the C-NLOPB? Who are the members?
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
I can't give you all the names, but there are three provincial representatives, three federal representatives, and a chair and CEO who is chosen by both. The chair and CEO is Mr. Max Ruelokke. There are other members, but I can't--
Bloc
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
Oh, no. No, they are not. They are citizens who have been asked by their respective governments to serve on the board.
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Your report has 29 recommendations. I assume they are for the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board.
Have you received a reply from the board? Will these people respond in writing to the 29 recommendations?
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
Yes, I consider it a very positive response; of the 29 recommendations, they accepted 27 and are going to work on putting them into effect.
Of the two that were not accepted, the 28th was about night flying. I agonized a lot over night flying. The reason I agonized was that statistics show that if an accident happens or a helicopter is forced to ditch at night, the fatality rate is much higher than if it happens in the day. Not only are you risking the lives of the passengers, but you're also risking the lives of the SAR technicians who are trying to rescue them. The whole risk is greater. At the same time, a bare-bones S-92 helicopter costs $20 million; fully equipped, it's $25 million. These are not cheap. Nobody would be expected to have several of them sitting around just in case a backlog occurred.
It's a really difficult problem, and I suggested a possible compromise. I suggested that a worker representative, a C-NLOPB representative, an oil operator representative, and a helicopter operator representative have a committee, and if it was imperative that there be night flying to clear up a backlog and if the weather and everything else were suitable, then they could authorize it. That's how I approached it.
The other recommendation, which C-NLOPB has not commented on but has submitted to the two governments, was that there should be a separate safety authority, as in the United Kingdom, in Norway, and in the United States. The presidential commission recently reported--on January 11, I think--and also recommended a separate safety agency.
The federal government has not said anything about that recommendation as yet, but the provincial government has announced that it's in favour of it.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
According to your mandate, you have made recommendations to the organization we are talking about. Your first recommendation is:
that the first-response helicopter be up in the air in 15 to 20 minutes.
So this means that you recommend that oil companies have their own helicopters ready for take-off in the first 15 or 20 minutes. But should the funding for this operation and the helicopter go beyond oil companies?
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
Yes. I consider the improved response time and the helicopter that they've acquired now--an S-92, which is dedicated and is always ready--to be oil company responsibilities.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Did you analyze the state of the helicopter in the days before the tragedy? Was that your mandate or was it the mandate of the Transportation Safety Board of Canada?
Inquiry Commissioner, Inquiry into Matters Respecting Helicopter Passenger Safety for Workers in the Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Area, Offshore Helicopter Safety Inquiry
It is solely within the jurisdiction of the Transportation Safety Board to determine all of the events or factors that they find to have been part of the accident and the tragedy.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier
Thank you, Mr. Bachand.
Thank you very much.
I will give the floor to Mr. Harris for seven minutes.