National Defence Committee on Feb. 14th, 2011

[Jerzy Komorowski]

The interviews we conducted were to understand the environment in which these people have to work. On that basis, we were able to sort of synthesize some of the most important ergonomic aspects of this, the ergonomics as a man-machine interface, really, that we're looking at, the human aspects.

What we have concluded, and it's very well shown in the report, is that it is very important to take into account exactly and to create the environment in which these people can work in safety and essentially without putting their health at risk.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I guess I was just looking for specifics as in characteristics: speed, size, bigger compartments....

[Jerzy Komorowski]

That did not transpire, at least to my knowledge, and it's certainly not reflected in the report.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You still have one minute.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Was all the relevant information provided for this particular review, do you feel?

[Jerzy Komorowski]

Yes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Could you have done with more?

[Jerzy Komorowski]

We have attempted to deliver this report in a very short time. Given the terms of reference, all requests for information and documents were essentially complied with. I'm not aware that any document that my team requested would have been denied.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Do you think the terms of reference could have been broadened in this particular case? Could you have done more with a little more in the terms of reference?

[Jerzy Komorowski]

I think we were properly tasked, given our expertise.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's good. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

I will now give the floor to Mr. Payne.

You have five minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would also like to welcome the witnesses here today. It's interesting to hear your expertise.

My question to the witnesses is to what extent could the Government of Canada rely on the analysis and best practices of other countries with respect to fixed-wing SAR capabilities in aircraft?

I'll ask several questions, but maybe you'll want to respond to that one first.

[John McDougall]

When you are looking at aircraft selections, or any equipment these days, I think you tend to look globally. Again, what you're trying to do ultimately is find the most cost-effective way to deliver the mission you want to deliver within your performance specifications. I think everyone will look everywhere in fulfilling that.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay.

I believe there were some questions around Newfoundland versus B.C. If you're looking at fjords in Newfoundland versus B.C. mountain passes, how would that impact your decisions?

[John McDougall]

Again, the elements you look at are the kinds of missions you expect—the study looked at the different missions that have to be carried out—and that ends up creating some of the performance specifications an aircraft would have to meet to complete that mission. Ultimately, when the missions are put together, you end up with your statement of requirements.

The point that was made earlier is that this may or may not be able to be fulfilled by one aircraft. It depends on the aircraft, how much money you've got, etc.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Do other countries have similar topographical and meteorological conditions to Canada, which would make their analysis and best practices comparable to our fixed-wing SAR?

[John McDougall]

I'm going to make a brief comment and then I'll pass it to my friend. I would just say that we know Canada is a vast land mass and it has a very wide range of operating environments, so that obviously plays in.

Go ahead, Jerzy.

[Jerzy Komorowski]

The short answer is that we have not. This was not part of our mandate. We essentially analyzed the statement of requirement as it was presented to us.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Am I still up?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You still have two minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay.

In your report you recommend that additional mandatory requirements be added to the statement of operational requirement. What are they, and why would you have added those?

[Jerzy Komorowski]

Essentially we advocated adding integrated vertical optical infrared sensors and night vision goggle capabilities, and to have those integrated from the start. If you do it later, that relates to certification, and it might increase the cost.

We also advocated for short gravel runway operation capability; operations using austere airfields; flight into known icing conditions, ground de-icing, anti-icing clearance; a 30-year estimated life expectancy for fixed-wing SAR aircraft based on an average yearly flying rate; ergonomic design of the seating and workspace at the spotters' windows; as well as compliance with relevant civil operating rules, such as access to airspace requiring performance-based navigation, reduced vertical separation minima capability, installation of traffic collision and avoidance, and terrain awareness and warning systems, as well as having a ramp.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

That's quite a list. When you did your study, did you find any impact in terms of cost from those additional suggestions?