National Defence Committee on Feb. 14th, 2011

[Jerzy Komorowski]

I'm quoting off the top of my head. There is a certain suite of sensors that we advocate should be there that would help in search and rescue, that the aircraft be able to operate from unprepared gravel runways, that it be able to operate in icy conditions, and that it have a ramp. We felt the ramp was essential and extremely important. Those are just examples. I may have left something out, but there is a list right at the beginning of the report that lists all the mandatories that we identified that were not part of the original specifications.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Changing gears somewhat, could you comment on whether there are other options for the acquisition of fixed-wing SAR, including the possibility of civilian options?

[Jerzy Komorowski]

We have pointed out that the constraint of using only Canadian Forces could preclude the number of possible solutions. That's what we indicated in the report.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

How have the stakeholder federal government departments reacted to your report? How have they welcomed and reacted to it?

[John McDougall]

As I mentioned, the report was tabled. We had what I would call a normal kind of interaction, with various clarifications, etc., sorted out. The report has been accepted. Like you, we're now waiting to see what the specific recipient departments will do with it.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bachand, the floor is yours.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The procurement process for fixed wing search and rescue has not started yet. In your view and in light of the current study, is it urgent to start the tendering process? In other words, will 15, 17 or 19 additional fixed wing aircraft significantly improve the search and rescue work in Canada?

[John McDougall]

We addressed the urgency earlier with the comment that aircraft can have life extensions. The current fleet isn't suddenly going to terminate in its capabilities. It can be maintained in various ways for some time.

I probably shouldn't say this, but I like watching Ice Pilots NWT, watching the DC-3s they're flying around in the north that are dated from the Second World War and are still going strong. So you can do this.

But really, the point we can make with respect to pace and urgency is only that we were as responsive as we could possibly be and, having been commissioned in October, completed the review and delivered a report in March. So I think we've done what we can to facilitate the process.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

But in your report, you said that the delivery date of the first aircraft should be as soon as possible. We understand that there is some urgency. And the date should not exceed 36 months after contract award and final aircraft delivery should be no later than 60 months after contract award. That’s why I say that there is some urgency in getting the aircraft.

[John McDougall]

Anything with respect to scheduling, as I say again, really is the political procurement process that will play itself out. It's not something we can particularly comment on. The numbers about timelines, etc., that were put forward were pieces of information that were extracted from the discussions we had. But beyond that, we really can't make much comment.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

In your report, you are questioning the relevance of a single fleet. You seem to say that a multiple fleet with different types of aircraft could allow for greater flexibility and might be more effective. Could you tell us more about the single fleet versus the multiple fleet?

[John McDougall]

It's fair to say, in a perfect world, that if you had every possibility at your disposal, you would be able to best serve. Right? But we don't have the financial wherewithal to do that. We don't have a lot of things. So it does come down, ultimately, to the performance and the risk we're prepared to require and accept. All we can do is say that these are the ways you'll get the most options to the table, which I think is essentially what we've done with this report. And then within that, these other decisions have to be made.

[Jerzy Komorowski]

If I may add, we have indicated in the report that while the SOR alludes to a single fleet, we are advocating consideration of a mixed fleet because certain extremes of the envelope, so to speak, infrequent and very remote accident locations, would favour a very high-cruise aircraft, which would not be required for a majority of Canadian search and rescue incidents. So a much less capable aircraft could possibly serve most of the instances, while very infrequent, very distant incidents could be served by a small number of much faster aircraft.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

So, if I understand correctly, you prefer a multiple fleet?

[John McDougall]

I would say we don't prefer or not prefer. We emphasize again that different options are to be considered. Depending on your financial and risk tolerance, those decisions can be made. It's not really our job to advise on those choices. It's only to say, if you want choices, this is the way you can achieve them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. McDougall. Thank you, Mr. Bachand.

I will now turn the floor over to Mr. Boughen.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to our experts here this afternoon. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

What are the challenges associated with determining an appropriate speed and range for Canada's future FWSAR aircraft, and what factors need to be considered and why?

Ten seconds or less....

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[John McDougall]

It's a very big question.

I think in simple terms the performance standard that needs to be met is clearly an important consideration. As I said in response to some of the others, having set a performance standard with a risk tolerance associated with it, one is able to determine the best possible choice within the cost envelope available. I think that's the process that has to be followed.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Okay. To what extent would you think it's reasonable for the Government of Canada to seek and procure an FWSAR aircraft that beats the capabilities currently provided by Canada's existing fleet? Would you think the current version of the SOR allows for such an aircraft to be sought?

[John McDougall]

Again, that's the political question, really. As was mentioned earlier, the decision about service, the question about what's going to evolve in terms of future requirements and so on, does have to be judged and become an intimate part of the decision, but that's a decision made by others, not by us.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

In your report, do you list possible choices as something to consider on the procurement side of the post?

[John McDougall]

As a matter of fact, we've been very careful not to because we're trying to determine and put on the table a statement of requirement, not a specification for a product, if I can put it that way.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Okay.