National Defence Committee on June 5th, 2013

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I am sorry to hear that.

[Cpl Glen Kirkland]

It's okay, it wasn't you.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Ms. Moore, do you have any other questions?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Ms. Gallant talked about the insulin pump. I'm a nurse, so I know that is a very useful tool. It helps young people remain mobile. You were told that the pump was too expensive and that it could not be provided to you.

Did anyone seriously discuss that option with you at some point?

[Cpl Glen Kirkland]

I brought up the idea of a pump once and it was just met with such.... It wasn't a positive experience. All they talked about was the expense of the pump. I just left there thinking perhaps that's another one of those big question marks that Veterans Affairs will help me out with.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Your time has expired.

We don't have time for another question, unfortunately.

What's your point of order?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

If I may, Mr. Chair, first of all, we all owe Corporal Kirkland a huge vote of thanks for his—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I have one question I want to ask Corporal Kirkland.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Okay, as long as I get the opportunity to....

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Yes, for sure.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Shall I speak now, or do you want to ask your question?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I just want to ask my question. If this is on other business and proceedings, then we'll deal with that, or is it—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

No, it's related to the corporal.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay, go ahead.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I think the telephone call from his superior officers is a very serious issue with respect to a parliamentary committee. I want to read into the record that on page 94 of O'Brien and Bosc it says:

[A]lthough witnesses before a parliamentary committee are not Members of Parliament, they are not strangers to the House either. Rather they are guests who are afforded parliamentary privilege because, as with members, the privilege is necessary to ensure that they are able to speak openly, free from the fear that their words will be used against them in subsequent proceedings....

...privilege “precludes other entities from holding Members of Parliament or witnesses before committees liable for statements made in the discharge of their functions in the House”.

I wanted to read that into the record, Mr. Chair, as a point of order, but also as a point of caution.

It may be, subsequent to this meeting, that the committee wishes to act upon what has clearly been a call from his superior officers that has potentially—I wouldn't say it “has”, but at least potentially—affected Corporal Kirkland's testimony before this committee. Parliament is supreme in all matters, including the military.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I'd just like to add to that, actually, because I was also going to raise a similar issue. Chapter 20, which is specific regarding witnesses appearing at committee, on pages 1069-70 states:

Witnesses appearing before committees enjoy the same freedom of speech and protection from arrest and molestation as do Members of Parliament. At the committee’s discretion, witnesses may be allowed to testify in camera when dealing with confidential matters of state or sensitive commercial or personal information. Under special circumstances, witnesses have been permitted to appear anonymously or under a pseudonym.

This is an important part:

Tampering with a witness or in any way attempting to deter a witness from giving evidence may constitute a breach of parliamentary privilege. Similarly, any interference with or threats against witnesses who have already testified may be treated as a breach of privilege by the House.

I hope this gets down to your superior officers that they could be in contempt of Parliament, in breach of the privileges of the House, and that you should not be facing any type of interference or punishment from people at the base.

Further, it states:

In light of the protection afforded witnesses by Parliament, they are expected to exercise judgement and restraint in presenting their views to committees.

We want to ensure that you don't face undue recourse from people back in Shilo.

Corporal Kirkland, you're actually the third witness now who has experience at Shilo, and the stories we are hearing are somewhat disturbing, to say the least. We're not having the same type of experiences come forward from other CF bases.

In your experience in talking to other brothers in arms across the country, are you hearing them having the same difficulties in receiving treatment, in receiving the aids and assistance they require to get on with their lives as soldiers?

[Cpl Glen Kirkland]

If you look at 1 and 3 PPCLI, so 1st and 3rd battalion, they are in a major centre. They have everything Edmonton has to offer. It's a big metropolis, right? Then, in Ontario, it seems like they are able to move them to major cities quite easily, to get access to it. Shilo is the armpit of Canada. It's in the middle of nowhere. You are 250 kilometres from Winnipeg.

The hospital staff in Brandon try very hard. They are fabulous. When I was diagnosed with my...to give myself insulin injections, they were unbelievable. So that was good.

One thing that's universal across Canada, especially with wounded soldiers like myself, is that need for the security of a pension that we've earned, literally through blood, sweat, and tears.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Corporal, for being here, for your valour in the field, and for your courage to appear today and to be able to share with us your experiences. That will help us a great deal in the formation of our report.

With that, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

[An hon. member]

So moved.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We're out of here.