National Defence Committee on June 5th, 2013

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

I'd like to call the 84th meeting of the Standing Committee on National Defence to order.

The chair has been slightly delayed, so I'm chairing the meeting as vice-chair.

We're continuing our study on the care of ill and injured Canadian Forces members. Our first witness this afternoon is Colonel Russell Mann, director of Military Family Services for the Department of National Defence.

Colonel Mann, welcome to our committee. We would like to give you an opportunity to make a brief presentation for up to 10 minutes. We'll then proceed with questions. You're here for the first hour of our meeting.

Thank you, sir. You go right ahead.

[Colonel Russell Mann, Director, Military Family Services, Department of National Defence]

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, honourable members of the committee, ladies and gentlemen. Bonjour, mesdames et messieurs.

I want to begin by thanking you for your invitation to appear today in order to bring some insight into Military Family Services. Most importantly, however, I'd like to thank you for the work you do on behalf of Canadian Armed Forces personnel and their families, especially the ill and injured and their families.

As the Military Family Services director, managing a division of the Morale and Welfare Services organization of the Canadian Armed Forces, I oversee quality of life issues and administer two major programs: the Military Family Services program, largely delivered by third-party, non-profit organizations known as military family resource centres; and the dependant education program, which manages the education, compensation, and benefits requirements of military members with dependent children.

My 34 years of service to our country have involved more than 20 moves from coast to coast, the United States, and Europe, as well as deployments to mission areas in the Middle East and Central America. I appreciate and understand many of the realities of the Canadian Armed Forces lifestyle and what that means for families who proudly choose to become a part of that lifestyle.

The Military Family Services program is delivered by 32 military family resource centres located on bases and wings across Canada, as well as by seven sites in the United States and four sites in Europe.

Services and programs are delivered to the military family population and aim to provide support at times when families are transitioning to new communities due to frequent moves or when families are separated or reunited due to deployments, training, or other operational requirements. We also provide direct support to families through a family information line, 1-800-866-4546. This service, which as of April 1 offers a 24/7 response, provides bilingual, confidential information and referral to families by trained counsellors who know how to navigate the oftentimes complicated Canadian Armed Forces federal, provincial, and municipal infrastructures.

To complement services provided by the centres and the 1-800 service, we also manage a central online source of information for military families at www.familyforce.ca. This portal allows families to access all military family resource centres as well as national information and resources relevant to all military families.

That said, the business of supporting military families has changed and evolved over the years. The new reality is that 80% of families are now living off base, compared to only a few years ago when the same number lived on base. As well, we now have a population of military personnel facing significant physical and mental health stresses and injuries. As such, effectively supporting Canadian Armed Forces personnel, including the ill and injured, means we have to make sure families standing behind them are resilient and strong.

Support to families following illness, injury, or death of a Canadian Armed Forces member has indeed evolved over the past several years, and the difficult experiences of families have influenced the Canadian Armed Forces way of reaching out to families of the ill, injured, and fallen.

Since 2010, these families have been able to access provisions for 168 hours of casualty support child care, and in recognition of the key role families play in a Canadian Armed Forces member's recovery, family liaison officers have been established as core staff of the MFRCs and are co-located with integrated personnel support centres as a means of providing additional mental health support. They provide support services that include short-term individual and group support, referrals to mental health services, facilitated access to community-based programs, and outreach support.

While these services are in place, we also acknowledge that families' needs continue to grow over time and that no two families will likely experience a recovery or grief in the same way. For this reason, we are committed to continue to evolve our program model and philosophical foundation to reflect a family focused approach that continues to bolster resilience in military families and places mental health as the key priority.

Equally important, ladies and gentlemen, support to military personnel and their families also means increasing awareness and understanding of the unique conditions of service beyond the Canadian Armed Forces community, since many of the care providers come from communities in which our families live. Today, military families are living in Canadian, American, and European communities at large, creating a need for greater stakeholder engagement and community awareness.

We know military families have distinct needs that tend to arise largely as a result of three unique factors: transitions, particularly mobility and relocation; operational tempo; and personnel tempo.

Such issues as spousal employment, access to health care, child care, education credit equivalencies from province to province, housing requirements, mental health support, and special needs of loved ones can become real stressors for military personnel and their families. These issues have been there for as long as I can remember.

While these stressors are present in the lives of other Canadians, the unique circumstances surrounding the military lifestyle amplify the frequency and the gravity of these stressors, affecting the resilience of today's military families.

Although Military Family Services maintains that direct services are extremely important in building resiliency in families, it has also identified stakeholder engagement and bolstering of community awareness with the larger Canadian community and with municipal and provincial governments as a priority.

Honourable members, ladies and gentlemen, I could go on at length, but I realize that I must be brief and as concise as possible in my address to you. I have given you an overview, but there is much more I could say.

I'd be more than happy to respond to any questions or comments you may have for me.

Again, I want to thank you for the time you have allocated to me today.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

Thank you very much, sir.

If you're okay with this, our usual procedure is to have questions from both sides.

We'll start with Mr. Robert Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Colonel, it's a pleasure to have you here today and to hear what you have to say. The service that both you and your organization provide for the men and women in the Canadian Forces who have been injured or ill, or who otherwise need your support, is extremely important.

I want to talk to you for a second and maybe ask your opinion on what you would suggest on a matter that I've been dealing with for some time now in my constituency. It has to do with the home equity assistance program. You may be familiar with that. It's a problem that's been faced by a number of Canadian Forces families across the country.

In particular, there's a major in my riding whose family is imploding, frankly, as a result of the stresses and the pressures that have built up over his attempt to deal with this issue.

Let me just briefly tell you that he has gone through the grievance procedure, gone through the regular channels. The Chief of the Defence Staff ruled in his favour, and said that he in fact should have been compensated for the loss that he and his family incurred as a result of a relocation. The military ombudsman likewise supported his position and identified the problems.

Let me just say that he's been fighting this issue now for five, six, seven years. This is one family out of approximately 146 families.

Colonel, the burden that this has been to this member's family.... He has five small children. I spoke to him yesterday. He was in tears. He's been sleeping in his van. He had just gone downtown to hock his wedding band and his medals.

What are we supposed to do about this guy? What are we supposed to do about his family? Why is the military allowing his family...?

This man has served in Afghanistan, two different tours. He has 25 years in the military. He's a major.

Why does it have to get to this position? He's been shown to be right. It's been proven that the program is wrong. Why is he being left to hang out to dry? His family is basically being allowed to be destroyed.

Can you comment, please?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

We have a point of order here.

Go ahead.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Chair, I didn't want to interrupt Mr. Chisholm's question, but I think we do have to remind our witness, Colonel Mann, that he's not under an obligation to answer this question because his unit is not responsible for this program. We do, however, have the opportunity to have someone come here a little bit later, in the context of this study, who is responsible.

We've all agreed around this table several times that this is a question we want answered. I think in this case we do need to remind Colonel Mann that answering questions about programs that are not his direct responsibility is not a requirement.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Could I speak on that point of order, Mr. Chairman?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

Yes, go ahead.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Chairman, we have a representative here from Military Family Services. Colonel Mann just took some time to explain to members of this committee what his organization does, the support that they mean to provide to servicemen and women, and families, not just after the fact but preventative as well. I am frankly offended by the fact that the member opposite is suggesting that I can't ask this question or that Colonel Mann can't answer the question. As a result of the way this man who I'm talking about, this member of the military, has been dealt with, this gentleman and his family are suffering at levels that nobody around this table would perhaps have any experience with.

I don't know why it is that we can't hear from Colonel Mann without having a member of the government try to coach his response and suggest that it's not appropriate.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

I'm going to let the discussion end there.

On the question itself, the colonel did indicate that 80% of military personnel now live off base, and home equity is an issue that relates to families that are in those circumstances. Although we're talking about the care of ill and injured Canadian Forces members, we are talking about someone who's suffering as a result of this.

I will say to the colonel that he doesn't have to answer any question. He can answer it in whatever way he wishes. Mr. Alexander is correct. We're not going to force an answer out of you. But you are the director of Military Family Services. If there is an answer that you have in relation to this matter, please go ahead.

[Col Russell Mann]

Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity.

I think I can give at least a partial answer, while acknowledging that compensation and benefits is an area of the department that, as the honourable Mr. Alexander has pointed out, is another part of the department, and the director general of compensation and benefits is in a position with the authority and responsibility to develop a home equity assistance program.

Certainly home equity loss affects all families, and my heart goes out to this major and his family, who are clearly suffering. I would like to be able to do more for that family. One of the things I can tell you from my role in Military Family Services is that I hear from families all across the nation through many different means. When I become aware of a particular case, I ask my team to try to find any way at our disposal to deal with the conditions that are caused by military service. As I said, that includes relocation, and one of the consequences sometimes is loss on the sale of a home.

We do have some means available to attempt to provide relief for members if we understand the full context. I would be more than willing to hear the full context to see if we can bring other services to bear within Morale and Welfare Services that are non-governmental but are intended to support families—for example, the military families fund, which is a fund of last resort for military families who are in distress and have nowhere else to turn.

I think there may be a partial way to deal with the member to whom you refer, sir, but I do have to defer and say that the director general of compensation and benefits is in a better position to give you good information about home equity programming and policy.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

Thank you, Colonel.

Your seven minutes is up at this point.

Could we turn it over now to Mr. Norlock, who I believe is the first questioner for the government side?

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

And thank you to the witness for appearing today.

I noted during your preliminary statement that some of the assistance you give—that your department gives—to the members of the military has to do also with OSIs, operational stress injuries, and PTSDs. We heard from previous witnesses that often, in their opinion, the first line of defence is the family. They're the first people who usually recognize post-traumatic stress or other occupational stress injuries. We need to include the family in any regime that is meant to alleviate the stressors and find what can be reasonable relief for those injuries.

I wonder if you could give us some examples of how you interact with families to do just that.

[Col Russell Mann]

Mr. Chair, we have a number of organizations. We always try to focus on a family centred approach when we talk about family services. What we mean by that is that we try to bring to bear three tools that we have in our tool box to deal with any situation that causes family stress: we have administrative supports, peer supports, and professional supports. In this case, peer support, we know, both anecdotally and from some research, is one of the more effective ways that families help other families, by having families who have been there and have done it help others navigate the stress they're going through. Operational stress injury social support is one such way in which we have had tremendous success. We help facilitate the OSISS program by making sure we have trained volunteers and facilitators who can help families once they make contact.

When it comes to helping them navigate the immediacy of ill and injured members and the stress the whole family experiences in that, we have tried to be as innovative and as creative as we can. As I mentioned, one of our innovations is in the area of family liaison officers: trained social workers who are placed at the integrative personal support centres specifically to help families who walk through those doors who are helping their loved ones to deal with their injuries and their stress. It allows us to have assessment, consultation, and referral for those family members. We have more than 30 family liaison officers in 28 locations across Canada who carry very heavy caseloads of the families to which you refer, sir.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you.

To be more specific, I guess an example helps. Let's say I'm the husband of a serving member of the Canadian Armed Forces. My spouse has just come back from deployment—it doesn't matter where. I notice that there are some differences in her behaviour. Not only are there differences in her behaviour, but she's beginning to cause me concern. She's acting in ways that I think are very injurious to herself and perhaps to family. We have three children. One of them is a teenager, one could be in primary school, and the other probably preschool. I give your department a call and ask for help. I tell you that I don't know quite how to deal with this—I'm not sure if I should tell anyone; I don't want it to harm my wife's career.

I need some help. What can you do for me? Give me an example of some of the things you would do with such a call.

[Col Russell Mann]

If it's a call, there's a good chance that it has come in either to one of my staff or to the family information line. What we would try to do is navigate them to local support in their area. That's first and foremost, trying to get them connected in their community.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Local support meaning who, sir?

[Col Russell Mann]

If somebody is calling from Esquimalt, for example, we would try to connect them to the family resource centre in Esquimalt.

As an example, this morning our family information line received a distress call from an actual family member who was concerned for the well-being of a military member. I'm happy to report that at least as we're talking now, that situation has been stabilized. Why? Because they exercised a protocol that is developed with community services and with care providers. In this case, what it involved was finding a padre who is closest to that family and having that padre make contact. The padre made contact discreetly with the family member, and in that way was then able to get connected to the military member to be able to stabilize, assess, and at least supervise while we look for additional care supports.

Again, the padres have their network of supports that also come to bear once they intervene. Every case is unique. Every case is different. What we try to do is energize the network of care providers who each bring their own skills to bear in a particular way. This family was comfortable with a padre. Another family might be more comfortable with a social worker. Another family might be more comfortable being connected to peer support. It's really hard for me to give you a standard answer. We try to listen to what the families' needs are and respond in the way that's most appropriate for them.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

If I judge what you're saying correctly, you assist the family with a combination of Canadian Forces paid personnel and people from social services in the community, if there are social services readily available. If that family happens to be in a situation where their particular need isn't provided by the civilian social services in that community, what kind of assistance are you able to provide from the military side? There may be a need for a family having to do with one of the children. I relate to children more, coming from a uniformed background, where sometimes the adults can handle things the children can't. Are there in-house, and I mean Canadian Forces, personnel available to assist children or a family member, other than a spouse, in a psychological or some other way?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

Colonel, can you keep your answer to under a minute? We're over time now, but we'd like you to answer the question.

[Col Russell Mann]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

As to mental health services, families can access the Canadian Forces Health Services in a time of crisis, and they will perform triage and then get that family or family member referred to community services in the most appropriate way, using their network of care providers.

Specifically for youth...I mentioned that mental health is our number one priority. We made a conscious decision to have a major partnering program with the Royal Ottawa, which is known as a best-practice organization in mental health. We work with real families, the Royal Ottawa, and our staff to develop online programming. It started with one chapter. We've also had third-party funders who have helped accelerate the pace of development of this. They have psychometrically-based self-help storylines to guide them through dealing with families who have OSI or PTS.

It's been tremendously successful, to judge by the traffic and the repeat hits we've gotten from those folks. But another wonderful thing has happened. The family resource centre's social workers have embraced this as a tool for youth group therapy. The testimonies I've gotten from families who've had their youth partake in those programs show that they are getting the benefit of professional support, professionally programmed tools and techniques, and peer support—all in one package.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

Thank you, Colonel.

Next is Mr. McKay. We'll be generous with you, sir, as I think both previous questioners went a little over time.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I've always been able to count on your generosity, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

Fairness, at least.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Yes.

Thank you, Colonel, for coming.

Last Monday we had some pretty dramatic testimony from some folks. I don't know whether you were here or whether you read the transcripts, but there were two families and two soldiers who talked about their own situations. It was pretty difficult and very compelling testimony.

One soldier brought in a shopping bag filled with binders. He had four binders packed with rules and regulations as to what he could or could not do in order to be able to have his house renovated. He and his wife, to their great surprise, are now $30,000 in debt, because apparently they offended something or other. They're not quite sure what, but nevertheless they're in a bit of a pickle.

Is this the kind of thing in which your service intervenes?