National Defence Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[BGen Craig King]

There are certain advantages, in terms of the redeployment now. Clearly, air elements can self-deploy and redeploy, unlike army units that are dependent on strategic airlift. It's much the same sort of thing that we're doing to recover our assets from Afghanistan, as you were briefed in the last session.

But yes, there are some efficiencies we have now. And the scale of the mission is about a fifth of what we were putting into some of the other larger-scale missions, like Afghanistan. So there will be some time efficiencies as well, but it will happen very quickly, sir.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you very much.

That finishes the third round.

I have a few questions I want to get a little more clarification on.

We're talking about having to build a professional police force and a professional army within Libya. In the transition, how do we protect Canadian diplomats and Canadian aid workers involved, either through CIDA or through NGOs, during this time that they're on the ground? Has there been any thought given to that yet, especially as we talk about the withdrawal of all NATO forces?

[Barbara Martin]

Clearly, the protection of the Canadians deployed to the embassy is of critical interest to the Government of Canada, and indeed there is a comprehensive security package in place to ensure their security. Obviously I can't speak of the details of that, for operational reasons, but we are very confident that our people are well protected. And that would include any CIDA personnel deployed. At this point, there is no CIDA official deployed in our embassy.

The UN will have its own security package as well. It is not possible for the Government of Canada to provide security for NGOs and such. They will need to consider how they would be looking after their own security interests in the country, and there are a number of solutions they look at in order to address their own concerns.

[BGen Craig King]

Could I just add to that?

We're not seeing any specific threat right now to western folks in Libya that would cause us to have any concerns at this stage.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

One thing that we witnessed during the revolution is that there were a lot of Gadhafi forces, Libyan forces and police that switched sides. Now, don't they bring a level of professionalism and already have the training and the background and hopefully the common sense to be on the right side here, wanting to uphold the rule of law? Would that be a place to start, in developing this new police force and national military?

[Barbara Martin]

Certainly Libya has a solid foundation on which to build.

With regard to methods of operation, to what extent do people need to receive a better understanding of human rights issues, and how can those be respected in the performance of their police work? There is also the question of loyalty, and in our conversations with the NTC they have expressed as much concern about that sort of thing as we have. So the question is how they will move forward on that in order to ensure that the forces are transformed into ones that are appropriate for a new democratic state based on rule of law and respect for human rights.

[BGen Craig King]

I would just add that from my experience working with the Afghan national security forces, it starts with the leadership. That's the essential element.

The Libyans are also going to face other challenges as they develop their security forces. It's a tribal mosaic there, as I know you appreciate, sir. So how is that reflected in the makeup of the security forces, both the army and the police? These issues are going to have to be addressed by the Libyans, and they are issues that have applied in our experience in Afghanistan dealing with the Afghan forces, so we can expect that kind of thing. But start with the leaders, and things will go from there.

And as Barbara mentioned, the leadership has to be of the kind of calibre that would enforce the kinds of things that Chairman Jalil was talking about on Libya's liberation day: respect for the rule of law, reconciliation, tolerance, unity--all of these things.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Based on that, where we had pro-Gadhafi forces and now we want to reconcile and we want to get to unity, are the circumstances surrounding the death of Colonel Gadhafi going to undermine that reconciliation? I know it might be too soon to tell, but has there been any inclination so far?

[BGen Craig King]

That's a question we've asked specifically in light of recent allegations regarding the nature of that death. It is too early to tell right now, but clearly it exacerbates a circumstance in the country, as we've already discussed in terms of the way ahead.

I would say there is the potential there, sir, and we're watching that closely.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Again, thanks for appearing today and for briefing us on the situation in Libya.

Please share with General Bouchard the comments you received today, as well as our congratulations on the great job they did, and how proud we are of all the men and women who are over there serving with the Royal Canadian Navy and the Royal Canadian Air Force, as well as everybody in the Canadian armed services who was deployed. They did a fantastic job, and I think it's really a feather in our cap. Under the leadership of General Bouchard we were able to integrate with and work alongside all our NATO allies and really carry a heavy burden in protecting all civilians in Libya and ultimately helping bring about the liberation of the country as well. So thank you.

Before we are dismissed, I just want to let everybody know that next week's agenda has been changed a bit, unfortunately, because witnesses we had hoped to have appear are not available. On Tuesday, General Vance, the director of staff of the Strategic Joint Staff, will be here. And on November 3 we'll have the CDS General Natynczyk, so that will give us an opportunity to talk to him and talk overall about readiness, which we're going to continue to study.

With that, I would suggest that the hearings we're going to have on CEFCOM and Canada Command be held during the week following break week. I'll just put off having the steering committee at this point in time, because we'll pretty much have things lined up. We'll do a steering committee once we get back.

Mr. McKay.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Could the parliamentary secretary advise us where Bill C-15 and Bill C-16 are as far as when you expect to bring those forward goes?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Alexander, do you know when those might be in the House?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

They've been tabled, as you know. We have had consultations with both sides.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

You haven't with me.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Well, we had a long conversation in an aircraft, John, and you have access to the legislation.

But we're pursuing an agreement to move forward expeditiously. We want to move on the shorter bill, to have all three readings at once, because it is time-sensitive. If we don't meet this December 2 deadline for entry into force of the law, we will be undermining, in effect, the constitutionality of the military justice system. And for the longer bill, because it was treated in the last Parliament, over two days in the House and five days in committee, we're hoping to have one speaker on each side at second reading, and then bring it to committee and try to be efficient with it in committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

I'll take a motion to adjourn.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We're out of here.