National Defence Committee on Feb. 25th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Yes, for a brief question.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

In terms of the JPSU, I noted in your remarks that the “primary goal of the Canadian armed forces is to return as many injured and ill serving personnel as possible to full duties”.

In the 2009 report, the committee encouraged the Minister of National Defence “to allow the continued employment of recovering soldiers” and to have a more “compassionate application of existing regulations regarding universality of service”. The ombudsman has noted that only 5% to 10% of military members were returned to their unit, which means that 90% to 95% were released from the forces.

Are the ombudsman's numbers not correct, in your view? Or if they are correct, do you believe that your goal is being met? If not, what's being put in place to increase the number of people who are able to be retained in the forces?

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Give a brief answer, if you will, please.

[Col Gerry Blais]

Absolutely.

With respect to the ombudsman's comments, I was speaking with his staff last week, and we have reconciled the numbers. They are in fact higher. You will note that in my comments I said the minimum is 25%, and we are there. We want to continue to increase that, and we will work diligently to do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Gallant, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to ask some very pointed questions, because the purpose of this study is to get to the bottom of the problems and make recommendations.

As Colonel Mann mentioned, military families rely on the civilian community. People in towns such as Petawawa take the care of soldiers and their families very seriously. This is evident by the generosity of the local businesses and individuals to particularly the Petawawa family resource centre.

My questions relate specifically to OSIs suffered by Canadian armed forces members and the consequences of seeking treatment. Our committee has been told that soldiers who obtain treatment for OSIs, including PTSD, are treated without negative impacts to their careers, yet we hear repeatedly in the House of Commons—in the chamber during question period, for example—that getting treatment for an operational stress injury is a career terminator. We also hear unhelpful comments from the opposition, even the Liberals saying that PTSD is all in their heads.

Please explain to me why some soldiers are told at their very first appointment in seeking treatment for an OSI that it's likely they'll be medically released in three years. Why is that the experience of some soldiers, whereas others are able to be successfully treated, and continue on, and grow in their careers?

[Col Gerry Blais]

I would say that it absolutely is not a career ender. There are, of course, some cases where an individual will not recover. The problem is that the longer it takes to seek care, the more the illness develops, and it's harder to get to a point where you are well enough to return to full duties. So the quicker we can get somebody into care, the better it is. That's the goal.

Unfortunately, there is still the perception by some that if they go to seek treatment, that will be the end of their careers. We are working diligently to get the word out to everybody that this is not the case. We encourage people to come forward, because the quicker you do get that care, the quicker the chances are that you will get back to full duties.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So that fearmongering isn't helping the soldiers. It's deterring them from getting the treatment sooner. Thank you.

We also have situations where soldiers go through a complete treatment plan, are deemed fit for universality of service by their psychiatrists, return to the job, work in live-fire exercises, are recognized as fully competent by their commanders, but then an Ottawa panel, called DMCARM, issues an order to have them medically released.

What is this panel, what are their qualifications, and how do they have the power to veto the decisions of psychiatrists and the commanders on the ground?

[Col Gerry Blais]

I can speak to the process as a whole.

The organization to which you refer is the directorate of military career administration. When a person goes through treatment, at the end of that treatment the medical officer assigns a medical category. When that medical category has changed from what the person had previously, medical recommendations are made. The doctor sends that up to the directorate of medical policy in the surgeon general's office.

Based on national standards, that directorate looks at the condition, at what the limitations are that are assigned to the individual, and then they send to the directorate of military career administration a medical recommendation as to whether that person can pursue military service.

At that point, with both the chain of command's and the individual's comments, the directorate of military career administration examines all of the evidence before it and renders a decision as to whether the person may or may not be retained.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So even if the person has demonstrated that they're fully capable, that sort of decision can still come down and determine the end of their career?

[Col Gerry Blais]

In most cases, if the limitations are such that release is going to be recommended, it is quite rare that an individual would have met the standard to which you refer.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I was very pleased to hear Colonel Mann talk about the family information line. We have more and more military families who are living off base, in the communities, and many of them never attend or even associate with the military family resource centres. So how are you going about trying to get the word out about the family information line to these families who often have an armed forces member who is suffering and who are suffering along with them?

[Col Russell Mann]

We're trying to use what I would call a multi-channel approach. We know that relying solely on the member to bring information home will get us some families who become informed, but not necessarily all. That's why we advertise in Canadian Military FamilyMagazine. That's why we advertised in all the base newspapers last year. That's why we put information about how to contact the family information line on our social media and our website.

We've tried not to use a single approach. In every visit my staff and I make to bases, we underscore that message—be it in town halls, in focus groups, or in feedback forums. We've asked the MFRCs as well to help us get the word out through their local channels and through local media. So my answer would be that we're trying to use any and every means available, including command teams and individual members, at the end of the day.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Colonel.

Thank you, Ms. Gallant.

Mr. Harris, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Colonel Blais, perhaps you can help us with the reconciliation of the numbers that you undertook with retired Colonel Daigle.

How many people or CF members have been appointed or assigned to JPSU since 2009?

[Col Gerry Blais]

I can't give you a cumulative number. The total posted to the JPSU right now is just under 2,000.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Well, you gave us a cumulative number of those who returned to their service, so perhaps you could do it for the committee and send it in to us. I'd like to know the numbers of individuals who've been posted to JPSU since it stood up in 2009, how many of them returned to active duty within the force, how many of them were medically released, how many of them were retired out, and any other statistics that you could give us in terms of what their fate was. We are dealing with the ombudsman's statement that 5% to 10% are retained and everybody else is out. That reinforces, frankly, the statement that individuals make that when you're sent to JPSU, you're on your way out the door. That's what we're hearing from soldiers, and that's reinforced by the ombudsman's figure.

So if you have figures that are different from those, would you please provide them to the committee?

[Col Gerry Blais]

We will do so.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much, sir.

You give encouraging numbers, as well. Maybe they're futuristic, so I'll forgive you for that. With regard to the program you mentioned and the 10,000 workers who are expected to be taken up by the military employment transition program in the next ten years, has anybody been employed in that program yet?

[Col Gerry Blais]

A number of people have been employed, and that's not the only program—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I know there are others, but what kind of numbers do you have so far?

[Col Gerry Blais]

I don't have specific numbers. I can tell you that we have close to 200 companies that have signed up for the program to employ people. We have not yet begun the performance measurement and we do not yet have the actual numbers of people employed to provide to you.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

There's another program that we supported from the beginning, the helmets to hardhats program. Can you tell us how many people have been employed through that program to date?

[Col Gerry Blais]

The question would be better answered by helmets to hardhats, because they deal directly with the individuals, but I do not believe that many members have successfully completed that program yet.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

Perhaps this is again for you, Colonel Blais. My colleague Ms. Murray mentioned the recommendation of this committee in 2009 with respect to a more compassionate application of universality of service. I think the ombudsman used the term modernization of the universality of service. What consideration is being given within the Canadian Forces to either of these recommendations to date?