National Defence Committee on April 3rd, 2014

[Kevin Lindsey, Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, Treasury Board has not yet approved that investment plan. That said, an additional $400 million in CFDS funding was approved for the 2013-14 fiscal year. I believe I spoke to that increase in funding before this committee in the context of supplementary estimates (B).

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for that answer.

So $832 million, which was a part of CFDS's authorities and plans, was sunsetted or allowed to lapse. You did not receive authority for the investment plan, but you did get $400 million. What was that used for?

[Kevin Lindsey]

This is really testing my memory, with all due respect, Mr. Chair.

I did testify and give the distribution of that $400 million. Again, I believe it was in the context of my testimony here for supplementary estimates (B). I do not have that distribution with me today, nor is my memory of it firm enough that I dare give you an answer today. But we could follow up.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay.

[Kevin Lindsey]

Or refer to the earlier testimony.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Ms. Murray. Time has expired.

Mr. Williamson, please.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Just as a point of note, while I take the privacy concerns of Canadians extremely seriously and think it's vital that we remain on guard and always vigilant when it comes to that privacy, I do want to highlight the difference between our organization and the NSA to follow up on Mr. Bezan's point.

In the U.S. the NSA budget is over $50 billion. It's not just 10 times our budget, it is over 100 times our budget—just to highlight the capabilities. I feel sometimes people see what's happening in the United States and automatically assume the same thing is happening in this country, given some of the reports. I think it is important to highlight the difference in capability.

On that question, Mr. Forster, do you feel you have the resources to do your job adequately, to safeguard and protect the country as you're mandated to do or your group's mandated to do?

[John Forster]

I believe so, yes. Since 9/11 and with the advent of cyber-threats that have increased dramatically over the past several years, the organization has about doubled in size in the last 12 years. We have outgrown our current facility and are moving into a more state-of-the-art facility that will allow us to fulfill our mandate given to us by government and collect the intelligence that the government needs.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Rear-Admiral Patrick Finn, I'd like to.... Finally, you're thinking, you get to talk about some hardware. How are things going with the shipbuilding on the east coast? I'm a member from New Brunswick. This project is vitally important to our economic interests. I know it's important to the defence of the country. I'm curious to know how you feel the procurement strategy is going and if there have been any hang-ups or any updates you can offer us today.

[Rear-Admiral Patrick Finn, Chief of Staff, Materiel Group, Department of National Defence]

As you can appreciate, the shipbuilding strategy has many projects that underpin it and, in fact, a few projects that precede it are very large enablers. For example, the modernization of the Canadian patrol frigates, a very important ship to the navy, is well under way. The shipyard in Halifax has delivered a number of those ships, which are out on sea trial. This year is a very important one for us as we do some of the high-end trials, culminating in the first ship coming back into the fleet fully modernized at the end of the year. The shipyard has also delivered the last of the midshore patrol vessels for the coast guard, another key enabler. Right now in Halifax, a brand new state-of-the-art shipyard is on the ascendency.

A lot of work has gone in, specific to our other projects unfolding on the east coast. We are well on our way to completing the design of the Arctic offshore patrol ship, and certainly completing that design before we start construction is a very large enabler to success. We anticipate being in contract later this year and to start construction of the first ship next year. On its heels will come, as I like to describe it, building through the Arctic offshore patrol ships into the next generation of surface combatants. That long-term approach is serving us very well so far.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

That’s very good.

How about on the west coast, can you update us? I think that's more coast guard, if I'm not mistaken, but are you able to provide an oversight on that as well?

[RAdm Patrick Finn]

It's principally coast guard. Again, we're working—and one of the things about the strategy is that it has brought the users of federal fleets working much more closely together for the Canadian Armed Forces. It's also where the joint support ships will be constructed, so we are engaging there as well. Another shipyard has recently—as of yesterday, I've got some photos of their new crane, their new facilities, and everything they're building out there to be a real top-end shipyard. They'll be building through some smaller coast guard vessels and then into the joint support ship and other ones like it. That is also moving forward.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you.

Mr. Harris, will you be splitting your time?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I will splitting my time with Ms. Michaud.

Mr. Forster, I would like to explore the relationship between CSEC and the law enforcement agencies. The act says that you were to provide technical and operational assistance to these agencies. How many occasions in a year would you have to engage in the specific operations with other agencies?

[John Forster]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, I don't have that number with me, but if we can release that and provide it to you, we would be happy to do so.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Can you give us a number for the last several years, the last three or four years, so we can get an idea of what the scale of operations are?

I think in your testimony you said that you operate under their—

[John Forster]

Oh sorry, Mr. Chair, if I may, I do have a bit of a number for you that I could give you actually, sorry, just looking at my notes. Between 2009 and 2012, there was a total of about 294 assistance requests. The average is about 70 to 80 per year.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

In those averaging 70 to 80, you're technically an operational assistant. Would you be operating under their wiretap warrant, for example?

[John Forster]

Yes, where we're providing assistance to law enforcement or security, we operate under their authority. If CSIS wants assistance in collecting information on a Canadian in Canada, they must go to court, they get a warrant, and then we're just providing technical help for them to do that under their lawful authority, which they have to demonstrate they have.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Is that because you have the superior technology or you have the backdoor—

[John Forster]

We would have capabilities.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

—you have the backdoor access to these networks that Bell and Telus have?

[John Forster]

No, I wouldn't say that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You wouldn't say that, but it's not true?