National Defence Committee on May 13th, 2014

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Can you speculate on what we would need those new tools for? If we're on top of things and everything is hunky-dory, sorry for the word, what do we need them for? What are the threats?

[LGen Stuart Beare]

I think the thumbs-up was about being in operational command. The thumbs-up wasn't indicating that the security environments are getting any easier to manage.

So the security challenges in the north will continue to include the following: the civilian activities in the north that could result in a safety or security challenge; the very real potential for environmental challenges in the north; and the requirement to provide for a response to the safety and security needs in the north today, which will continue to be required in the future. It's also the capacity to understand what those challenges are today and that our capacity response to them today is still meeting our needs and is adequate. Furthermore, bringing new capabilities online will help us not just deliver on the home game, but also provide the assurance that the home game, as we were talking about earlier, is also able to enable the continental mission and the mission overseas.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

With the end of our participation in the Afghan conflict, a lot of the tools came back that aren't necessarily adapted to our homeland defence. Can you mention the tools that we do need more specifically? You mentioned environmental challenges. Are we even looking at pandemic? What is the participation? What are the tools? Are we relying on the U.S. that much, or do we have what we need? What are we going to do if there is more than one crisis at the same time?

[LGen Stuart Beare]

Probably the most significant capability that came home from Afghanistan is our people. I think what you will see is that the majority of our operational activity in the homeland has been the mobilization of people with tools to provide for safety and security—for floods, fires, and the like—and to be able to prepare to conduct security operations around pre-planned activities like the G-8 and G-20, when required. So that is definitely home and available to us for use where and when required. A lot of that is a high readiness to respond day to day, as we are today in Kashechewan, for example, or yesterday in evacuating citizens from floods there.

That said, the tools that exist and are coming on line will continue to enhance our capability to provide all the main awareness, will continue to enable us to move around our country through strategic lift, to get to places of need, and to be able to operate with great quality in the maritime domain, in the air domain, and on the land. So I don't have a list of gaps in my capabilities to do the mission I'm required to perform today. I am tracking the new capabilities that are coming on line to make sure we integrate them to achieve their best effect, not just for the north, not just for the home game, but for the entirety of our operational missions.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

We have limited resources in Canada. Of course, we have to do the best that we can. We've heard that less with less is what's coming up. If we had a priority between ballistic missiles and equipment to defend our homeland, what would be your choice?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Your choice will have to wait until the questioner gets another chance.

Mr. Williamson, for five minutes.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Gentlemen, it's good to see you here today.

General Beare, I want to refer to some answers you provided to my colleagues, Mr. Leung and Mr. Harris. When Mr. Harris asked about coverage, you responded with respect to domain awareness and it sounded like a very satisfactory answer. When Mr. Leung asked about blackout zones, it seemed to raise some follow-up questions.

How do you reconcile those two answers? On the one hand, it sounded as if with the various capabilities that all is covered, but in a follow-up question from Mr. Leung, I was left with a sense of doubt or uncertainty, at least from my point of view.

I'd like you to respond to that, please.

[LGen Stuart Beare]

Absolutely. I will turn it over to General Loos to speak specifically to the northern piece, but what I want to assure you is that where people are and where our interests are, we're assuring that we have domain awareness and the ability to communicate with them.

Greg, go ahead.

[BGen G.D. Loos]

Simply to reinforce that point, when it comes to surveillance, that's not the issue. There isn't communications infrastructure across 4,000 square kilometres of Arctic zone. That's my area of responsibility. When we go to operate in the north, it means we have to plan for and take with us the necessary means for command and control to undertake our operations, so we're not relying on civic infrastructure to carry out our business. My error was in not clarifying that earlier.

Where and when we're called into action, almost exclusively, that's going to be in areas where there is population. There are 72 communities in the north. That's how I bound the problems from a safety and security perspective and where we practice and prepare and build relationships to make sure we can use what's there, understand what's not there, and bring it with us when we have to operate.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay, thank you.

As a point of maybe interest or education, a number of years ago a foreign vessel of Sri Lankan migrants approached the coast of Canada. Would that fall under the CJOC in terms of awareness of that ship well before news of it hits the Canadian media, for example?

[LGen Stuart Beare]

Absolutely. Public Safety leads on the illegal immigration agenda. They have an international network and partnerships. They have embassies and missions overseas that seek to anticipate and monitor.

There is a framework of contingency plans that allows for a request of Canadian Forces' assistance to the RCMP and Canada Border Services in the eventuality that one actually gets close enough to our shores that an intervention is required by Public Safety's partners.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

In discussing the north, you mentioned several key mandates: civilian, environment, safety. One that was missing, from my point of view, was both to highlight our sovereignty, and even the ability to project force.

A number of weeks ago NORAD scrambled some fighter jets as Russian planes were approaching North American air space. I'm curious, given the goings on in Ukraine—and Canada has taken a vocal and principled position that has run counter to what Russia might have hoped for or anticipated on the world stage—is the thinking going around, or are you prepared for the possibility that the bear might decide to poke us up there, and what would the response be from the forces?

[LGen Stuart Beare]

I'd say that, first, is our understanding of where Russian forces are positioning and what their activities are as a voice to their north, which of course frontiers on ours. It's pretty high. We have a pretty good understanding of their physical activity. We also have an appreciation of what their capabilities are, and in the aerospace domain, North American Aerospace Defense Command is paying attention to that every day. There is a series of routine activities that are maintaining our confidence that we're seeing and responding as a demonstration of will and also as a demonstration of our capacity to defend ourselves and preparedness to do so if required. That is happening under NORAD routinely.

Of course, then there is the question of intent. If what you're speaking to is intent, I won't speculate on what people's intentions might be. What I would offer is this: We have a current posture and a five-year plan for advancing our posture in our north, not just activities in the north but with forces from the south in the north. That is, in my estimation, effective in demonstrating our continued investment in and the reality and execution of our sovereignty over our northern aerospace—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much for that response.

Mr. Jack Harris for five minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

We have to talk about RADARSAT.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Excuse me. We have a bunch of items on the table here. I'd like to talk about ships a little bit more. It's kind of like either we have too many or we have too few. If we have 33 and we're only using half of them, then did we have too many before that? We've got 12 coast patrol vessels laid up, which I understand was for financial reasons.

I'm not asking you to tell our potential adversaries what the vulnerabilities are. Maybe we should have a more in-depth, off-the-record conversation, but do we have enough maritime assets to do the job?

[LGen Stuart Beare]

Mr. Harris, I'm not in a position, nor is it my responsibility, to represent the full upkeep and requirements of the entirety of the armed forces, and so I'd defer that question to others.

But what I'd like to assure you is that, with the capabilities we have today, with the sailors who are manning them today, we're delivering incredibly effective maritime operational effect at home, in and around our continent, and internationally. I see no compromise in our guarantee to Canadians on our capacity to deliver on the defence and security in the maritime domain at home.

I would offer that any calculus around how many, how long, is really not mine to speak to.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You're essentially the operations commander.

[LGen Stuart Beare]

I am the commander of the employment of the forces that the Chief of Defence assigns to all specific operational challenges.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So the naval assets, the army assets, and the air force assets report to you for operational purposes. Is that correct?

[LGen Stuart Beare]

When they're assigned by the Chief of Defence for those operations, that's correct.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

They have to be assigned for a particular operation, not in general?

[LGen Stuart Beare]

Yes, that is correct, sir.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Let's go back to the domain awareness side for a moment. Obviously we have the Auroras that you mentioned, the CP-140s. We have coastal patrol with the coast guard and with our ships.

Let's talk about the use of our CF-18s, for example. Are they engaged in regular patrol of our coastal or our sovereignty extent? Is that part of the ongoing program of either domain awareness or sovereignty exercise?