Evidence of meeting #52 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aircraft.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

J.J. Bennett  Chief, Reserves and Cadets, Department of National Defence
P.J. Bury  Director General, Reserves and Cadets, Department of National Defence
David W. Lowthian  Commander, 8 Wing (Trenton), Department of National Defence

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Peter Kent

Colleagues, in the interest of time, our witnesses' time and the short time they're with us this afternoon, we will begin and continue our study of the defence of North America. We have two witnesses from the Department of National Defence joining us for the first hour of our meeting today: Brigadier-General P.J. Bury, director general, reserves and cadets; and Rear-Admiral J.J. Bennett, chief, reserves and cadets.

I understand, Rear-Admiral, that you'll be delivering opening remarks.

Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Rear-Admiral J.J. Bennett Chief, Reserves and Cadets, Department of National Defence

Reservists bring a wealth of important skills, training, and experience to the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, and represent the wide diversity of this nation. We serve as both a strategic and operational resource for the Canadian Armed Forces by providing depth and breadth to the military's capabilities, as well as a vital link to Canadian communities.

With respect to today's topic, it's important to note that the reserve force consists of four very different subcomponents, not all of which are trained for or serve on operations or contribute to the defence of North America. Our cadet instructors are not trained for, nor will they be called upon to serve on, any domestic response or operational capacity. The primary reserve—closely aligned with the Royal Canadian Navy, Royal Canadian Air Force, Canadian Army, health services, judge advocate general, and special ops—and the Canadian Rangers are the only reserve subcomponents trained and employed for domestic operations.

The Canadian Armed Forces' unified force of maritime, land, and air elements is based on a total force concept that integrates full- and part-time military personnel to provide multi-purpose, combat-capable armed forces. Under this concept, regular forces are maintained to provide the government with a ready response capability. Reserve forces are intended for augmentation and sustainment for regular units and, in some cases, unique complementary tasks.

The total force concept also provides the framework for training and equipping the reserves. With the total force concept in mind, environmental commanders have designed their delivery of capability based upon a scaled response in conjunction with the required speed of response. Simply put, the regular force can more readily respond to crises due to its breadth of training and full-time nature, and is usually called upon as first responder for the Canadian Armed Forces. However in the case of a domestic response, owing to the immense geography of our nation and current Canadian Armed Forces footprint, the reserve would often be in a better position to respond due to their proximity and familiarity with the affected community.

However, reserves are generally held at a lower level of readiness and agree to serve voluntarily for operations. Therefore, there are a few distinct considerations to keep in mind for the employment of reservists in domestic operations, including notice, preparation time, as well as the fact that more than 80% of the reserve force who serve the military on a part-time basis need to return to civilian employment or studies in a timely manner following any operation.

Mr. Chair and committee members, BGen Bury and I are very pleased to be here to speak to you regarding the role of the reserve force in the defence of North America.

The Chief of the Defence Staff's vision for the primary reserve is a force that consists predominantly of part-time professional CF members, located throughout Canada, ready with reasonable notice to conduct or contribute to domestic and international operations to safeguard the defence and security of Canada.

The contributions of reserves to operations and their connections with Canadians are critical to the nation and to the environments and communities in which we serve. We must ensure that we attract, develop, support, and retain a ready, capable, motivated, and relevant primary reserve force as a strategic and operational resource for Canada and the Canadian Armed Forces well into the future.

In addition to our work to renew the Canada First defence strategy, the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces continue to review and refine our readiness levels and training requirements as well as the balance of full- and part-time military and civilian personnel to meet our institutional needs into the future. There have been and continue to be ongoing reviews and validation of primary reserve roles, missions, and tasks; establishment, recruiting, and retention; the balance of full- and part-time personnel; budget, compensation, and benefits; equipment and infrastructure; training; and care of our ill and injured and their families.

We are interested in expanding the use of reservists' civilian skills based on our success in operations with civil-military cooperation and civilian medical expertise through our health service reserves. We are also considering expanding reserve areas of expertise in the future to include capabilities like cyber.

Recent history has demonstrated the value of a highly trained and well led primary reserve that can be seamlessly integrated into the regular force whether that is on a mission or backfilling positions while others deploy.

Our successful integration of primary reservists on operations over the past two decades, combined with the provision of domestic capabilities for the Canadian Armed Forces, like the Arctic response company groups, sovereignty patrols, and coastal defence, has confirmed that our reserve force remains a foundation of Canada's defence and security. A sustainable reserve trained and equipped to meet the operational and security needs of our nation is critical to the operational success and the defence of North America.

Primary reservists are essential to the Canadian Armed Forces' ability to successfully execute international and domestic operations, and the Canadian Rangers have proven themselves to be critical not only to our domestic response in remote and isolated parts of this nation but to the training and employment of forces members in the Arctic.

The past 15 years have seen an exponential growth in the trust and dependence upon reserves to support and deliver on the defence of North America. Reservists have also deployed to every corner of the world in the delivery of operational excellence that has made Canada and Canadians proud.

Our collective challenge is to maintain the momentum of our total force approach and integrated model, and ensure we attract, train, employ, and retain a highly professional and motivated reserve force that will continue to be an effective and relevant part of Canada's defence well into the future.

Thank you. Merci beaucoup.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Peter Kent

Thank you, Admiral Bennett.

We will now begin with our first round of questioning, seven-minute lengths.

Mr. Chisu, go ahead please.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Thank you very much, Admiral, for your presentation.

You were speaking about the reserves generally. All reservists maintain a civilian life outside of the military, often including full-time employment. I'm not speaking about class B, because they don't have full employment in civilian life; they have employment in the military. I'm speaking about class A.

What efforts are made by the Canadian Armed Forces to help reservists and their employers maintain the balance between their military and civilian commitments? I'm not speaking about the public service. I am not speaking about the police. I am speaking about private companies. I am speaking about other national companies, how they are managing this balance between civilian life and military life.

3:40 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

Thank you very much for the question.

If I could just make a correction first, some class B is for short-term periods, and people may have taken a leave of absence from their civilian career, so there's also that balance of maintaining contact.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

In my career I have seen class B for 20 and 25 years.

3:40 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

That is the case for some, but there are others who may take a leave, so it is across the reserve force.

For over 30 years we've relied on voluntary employer support and support from academic institutions, for the most part. There are two sides to that equation. Part of the responsibility is the reservists' to inform and engage their employer about their military service and what they can bring back to that employer or their academics. The other is on the side of the business owner, the corporation, or the institution.

We have worked very hard to have a series of programs that engage and inform employers about the benefits of hiring reservists and supporting them. We reward employers. We're just going through a cycle of awards now at the provincial level, and we'll have our national awards in May.

We have also just started new programs. In the last 10 years, we developed legislation at the provincial and federal levels, and this past fall the government announced a new program of compensation for reservists' employers who allow them time off for operations.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

I have a question about the training of the reservists. There was a departmental performance report that indicated there were difficulties in data reporting and measuring the effectiveness of the initial training received by the primary reservists.

I am particularly concerned about the training that is received in the reserves. I don't know—maybe you can inform me about this—if it is at the same level as the regular forces. That is very important because it also impacts on the next question that I will put. How are the careers of the reservists going forward to have the same kind of senior positions?

3:45 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

There are differences between the environments of each of the services. For the most part, the majority, the primary reserve, trains to the same standard as the regular force. What differs may be where it is delivered. Certainly from the outset, the Royal Canadian Navy and Royal Canadian Air Force and health services all do the same basic training. The army has different models of delivery, but achieves the same standard for basic training of recruits, officers, and non-commissioned members.

As you progress through your trade, again sometimes it's delivered in the same schoolhouses as the regular force. Our leadership training is common across the Canadian Armed Forces. What varies is the occupational training. There are some reserve-specific courses and some reserve-specific training there, because we aren't required to train to the same depth and breadth as the regular force. I'll use the example of vehicle tech. Reserve vehicle techs would train to what was a known standard and be accredited across the Canadian Armed Forces but may not have to know how to do oil changes or tire changes on the entire fleet of Canadian Armed Forces vehicles; it would be specific to the reserve. There are also reserve-specific occupations. In the navy there are different types of engineers who work predominantly on the coastal defence vessels versus the frigates.

Again, training is comparable. It is to a standard that is equal across the Canadian Forces for common training.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

If it is comparable, as you say, when you are making the transfer from the primary reserve to the regular force, are there some problems there?

3:45 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

It isn't necessarily with the training. It can be, depending on your trade or your occupation. Again—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

I'm speaking about engineers, for example.

3:45 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

In that case there is a known difference between transferring from the regular force to the reserve, and from the reserve to the regular force, if you are in a trade that is only resident within the reserve or has different parameters from your regular force counterpart. There can be a challenge in doing prior learning assessments or equivalencies. In some cases, if that trade is not even resident in the reserve force, we may have to reclassify someone transferring from the regular force, or vice versa. Credit is still given for basic officer training or your basic recruit training, and all your leadership skills; it's just on the occupation where there are differences.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Okay. When you are giving the training modules, how can you envisage training people when they are already working full time? For example, there are packets of training that take two months or something like that, and people don't have vacation for two months.

3:45 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

It's the same challenge for the regular force for extended periods of training, where it takes them away from—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

A regular force is a regular force, sorry.

3:45 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

But it does take them away from employment.

With the reserve, we have alternative delivery methods, where not all of it is delivered residentially. We use online training. We use distributed training. We've also distributed to the unit level, so you will do the majority of it at your unit level, and then do only what is necessary in a schoolhouse there. We are looking at advanced notification as well. Of course, we look at modularization carefully because it can delay career progression and pay increases. So we try wherever possible to put the training into not only achievable blocks, but also to deliver it in different ways.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Peter Kent

That's your time, Mr. Chisu.

Mr. Harris, you have seven minutes, please.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Thank you, sir.

Thank you for joining us today. Rear-Admiral Bennett, it's a pleasure to have you here on this issue.

Of course, reservists have been around a long time in Canada, in fact they were the primary army for many years before the First World War.

Can I ask you for some information on the strength of the reserve force, and perhaps to break it down. The primary reserve consists of the army, navy, and air force reserve, I take it.

3:45 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

Plus health services, the JAG, and the the special operations reserve.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Okay. So they're included in the primary reserve, but they're not specifically associated with the army, navy, or air force?

3:45 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

No. Health services are affiliated under the chief of miliary personnel and the surgeon general, although they wear an army uniform. The JAG officers are affiliated with environmental uniforms, but work on behalf of the judge advocate general and special operations forces aligned with them.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

What's the current strength of the primary reserves in Canada?

3:50 p.m.

RAdm J.J. Bennett

The number that we use is the average paid strength, as opposed to the number of people with reserve ID cards. That varies a little. The average paid strength over a period is about 21,700. The total number of reservists who are enrolled in the primary reserve is 27,100.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Is that 21,700 in the primary reserves?