National Defence Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

I want to welcome the new defence minister.

My first question has to do with something in the estimates I find a bit odd.

You're requesting an additional $694 million in supplementary estimates (B). Is that correct?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I think it's about $684 million.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Something doesn't add up. Did you request an additional $100 million in supplementary estimates (A)? There's a $100-million discrepancy between what supplementary estimates (B) say and what supplementary estimates (A) say. I'd like to know where the discrepancy comes from. The figure in supplementary estimates (A) is $17.9 billion, but it's $18.06 billion in supplementary estimates (B). So there's a discrepancy of $100 million or so. I'm trying to understand why that is.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Certainly, I want to help you on that. As I said, as part of the estimates you'll get a continuous breakdown of where they are.

I'd like to ask Mr. Lindsey to provide you with some of the details on that.

[Kevin Lindsey]

What page are you referring to?

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Page 1-15. There's a difference of $100 million. That wasn't the amount originally authorized. I'm wondering what's behind the discrepancy.

[Kevin Lindsey]

Thank you, Mr. Larose. My apologies for making you wait.

The $100 million you refer to is not a mistake or something out of order. It is related to a statutory change on the one hand, which is a spending authority enabled by other legislation and not an appropriation act. Secondly, it is an amount of $97.4 million related to our operating budget carry-forward. So that is the same carry-forward that every other department receives, and the mechanism for receiving that carry-forward is that Parliament first appropriates money to Treasury Board and then Treasury Board transfers that money to departments. In this amount you're talking about, there are two components: a statutory adjustment of $3.3 million and $97.4 million for our operating budget carry-forward.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

My second question pertains to the Halifax International Security Forum, held from November 22 to 24. In supplementary estimates (B), you're seeking authority for an expenditure of $1.3 million, if I'm not mistaken.

First, could you briefly explain what it's for, and second, could you tell me why you're requesting funds you already spent? Essentially, you authorized the funding yourself, without our permission.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, support for the Halifax International Security Forum, I think, is very important. I think it's very worthwhile in terms of policy development and in terms of bringing individuals in from around the world. In fact, I'm pleased that you raised this matter, since I just returned from there Sunday night. It was very impressive. I believe there were 50 countries represented there, with Secretary Hagel of the United States, and I think four American senators, congressmen, the British security and defence department—all of them came together to discuss these issues.

My colleague, Minister MacKay, made an announcement that the government would continue to support this over the next five years, which is a big success.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you for that, but—

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

We've come to—

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

If I may, just shortly, because I was trying to interrupt the minister—

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Be very, very quick.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

There's still the fact that you authorized the spending before you presented this budget to us. I'm trying to understand why it wasn't authorized.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It's part of this, and it's part of the commitment of the government over the next five years to put in place the infrastructure and the private support that will be necessary to continue to hold this. Again, the forum seemed to be overwhelmingly well received. In fact, it was my first time there, and I have to tell you how impressed I was with the interaction between so many different countries. This was part of the feedback I was getting. I had the opportunity to have a number of bilaterals with other countries. Again, they were unanimous in the sense that they liked this forum to exchange ideas.

Again, there has to be a commitment to do that. As you pointed out, there is an ongoing commitment to make sure.... You can't just put these things together 48 hours before they begin. So it's an ongoing commitment, but it's a very reasonable one, Mr. Chairman, and one that I think is of great benefit to Halifax, Atlantic Canada, and indeed this country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Minister Nicholson. The time assigned for your appearance with us here this morning has expired, so thank you again.

We will suspend for a couple of minutes and then resume with your officials.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

We'll resume our meeting, colleagues. Our final questioner in the first five-minute round is Mr. Bezan.

The floor is yours.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for appearing, and also welcome Mr. Fadden to our committee. It's your first time to appear before us as a deputy minister. I welcome you to your new position, although you've been there since the spring. But it's still great to see you here.

I know we've already had a fairly robust discussion about arctic/offshore patrol vessels and arctic sovereignty but there are two points in the estimates that I did want to get more detail on. As part of the arctic/offshore patrol ship program, we have funding, I believe, that goes towards the development of arctic berthing and developing our naval facility up at Nanisivik. I also understand that there is a transfer from DND over to Natural Resources for the ongoing operation and maintenance of the Canadian Armed Forces arctic training centre, and that actually came in under budget and ahead of schedule. I wanted to get a little more detail on that.

[Richard Fadden, Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

With respect to the second part of your question, the transfer to Natural Resources, we had initially thought to develop the capacity that you're talking about on our own, if I can put it that way. On the other hand, Natural Resources Canada has been operating in the Arctic for some considerable amount of time. They have a great deal of expertise. They've developed ways of doing things that I think have resulted, and will result, in considerable savings. So the transfer reflects the work that we've done with NRCAN, and it reflects a considerable savings since we initially made these estimates. We really are building on their capacity, their centres, and the work they've done in the Arctic for some time.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you.

There's also a transfer here from National Defence over to CSEC for the development of the Canadian cryptographic modernization program. I was wondering, Mr. Forster, if you could speak about what that actually entails.

[John Forster, Chief, Communications Security Establishment Canada]

The crypto modernization program is a project that we're managing and delivering. We're working very closely with the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. It's a 20-year project begun in 2005, and it's really about how we modernize the communications and secure communications of the equipment that's used by the Canadian Armed Forces.

As cyber capabilities get more sophisticated by countries around the world, we need to modernize and upgrade our encryption capabilities to make sure the forces can communicate securely. The money in the supplementary estimates is a transfer from Defence to us to help do that equipment, working closely with them.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you.

Part of our ongoing commitment to the Canada First defence strategy, of course, is the acquiring of new equipment. I know that we've taken possession of new Leopard tanks, new Chinooks, and other assets. I'm just wondering where we're at in having those new assets in operation, fully kitted out?

[Richard Fadden]

I wonder, Mr. Chairman, if I could ask Admiral Finn to answer this.

[RAdm Patrick Finn]

As the assets come online, we are immediately putting them in for first training and then starting to deploy them. Some examples...you asked about the Chinooks. They have started to arrive. The wing has been put together in Petawawa. It's moving to its new facility. So it's now going through training and will shortly be available for operations.

On the naval side, the Halifax-class modernization has been a very large undertaking. The first ships are back in the fleet now undergoing sea trials. We're marching towards ultimately making them operational next year. The first of the light armoured vehicle upgrades, very significant upgrades to those vehicles, have arrived. They're in testing. So we have a number of areas under the Canada First defence strategy where the equipment has arrived and in fact is well on its way to being available for operations when required.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

On the standpoint of readiness and training, I just wanted to get more information on how we're doing with recruitment and training and keeping.... I know that operational tempo is reducing as we withdraw from Afghanistan and I know that we're on track to be completely withdrawn by the end of March. I just wanted to get a feel of what type of readiness.... I guess the doctrine we're now doing within the forces....