Evidence of meeting #9 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dart.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
Yes, I'm aware of it. We present, every year, our research findings at CIMVHR, the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How important is it emotionally and psychologically for transitioning veterans to be gainfully employed immediately after service?
10:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
It's really the key indicator for us, if they can get back into employment. The real difference, though, is not just a job, but a fulfilling job. We don't think the major problem facing veterans is unemployment; it's actually underemployment.
I can speak first-hand to this after coming out of Afghanistan, where I was in charge of 30 people's lives and millions of dollars' worth of equipment. The job opportunities coming back were at the bottom rung in some sort of organization. This is a very difficult thing to get your mind around and really get excited about, working from the ground up again, after you've completed.... I'd been 10 years in the military at this point.
To start that whole process over again is underwhelming. That's what can lead to more problems, to just saying, “Well, whatever; my time that actually gave me meaning in the world was in the military.”
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
While there's a lot of discussion about how to support veterans once they leave the military, is there something that can be changed during a soldier's active duty experience to help better prepare them psychologically for when the time eventually comes that they have to leave the Canadian Forces?
10:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
When it comes to trauma, I see it like jumping out of an airplane: if you don't have a parachute and you land on the ground, you're going to get broken legs and all sorts of messed up things if you survive. That's what trauma is like. There's very little you can do to stop yourself from being traumatized by something.
I think the best chance we have at preventing ongoing issues is to try to adjust the culture of coming forward for help so that people can learn how to self-assess: “I'm going through a stressful experience; I'll get assistance for it right away, take some downtime, get some time off.”
If it can become a cultural norm that getting injured psychologically overseas is no big deal, that it's just something that takes some downtime to recover from, then that's probably our best bet to preventing the ongoing issues that we start to see now in our veteran populations as they move out.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to all for your presentations.
If I may start with you, Mr. Laidler, what you're talking about here, your own experience is not a medical one, is sort of getting your head around not being a soldier and making that transition.
It strikes me—and we talked to some guys in Petawawa in the last couple of days who will be leaving the military—wouldn't that be something you'd expect the Canadian Forces to deliver? There's somebody who's about to be medically discharged, and they have three years to work on this. We wouldn't have people wondering what will become of them when they're discharged, when they're trying to, as you say, reinvent themselves. I get that.
Why do we wait until after people are having troubles or wondering about what to do with themselves?
10:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
I think it's a great point.
To give you a bit of an update, and not too pre-emptively, we have been in very good conversations with DND to date. We've talked to people from mental health. They realize that our program doesn't fit within the health services bracket, that we are in some other more psychosocial capacity, and that perhaps the home for an organization like ours and others could be in the JPSUs, where we're not helping necessarily an injured population, but we are helping people with that transition.
That's where we think we could help people, at the end part of their careers, before they've released. It's something that we've prepared our organization to take on.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
It strikes me that the fact your work is necessary is a bit of an indication it's not being done before people actually get out. You can take that as a comment.
Looking at the statistics we've been provided, we're told that you have supported 400 people in the last 15 years, which is on average 24 or 25 a year. You were expecting to do a lot more. How many people do you have actually working full time for the VTN?
10:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
That 400 number is back-ended. For the first 12 years or so, we were only running this as a research project. It was very small scale. We've been ramping this up. We want to get it to 150 military and veteran personnel per year in 2015.
Currently we are a non-profit organization. We have three full-time staff members, and about 15 clinicians across the country who work for us on contract. These are registered psychologists we contract for the 10-day program delivery.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
If I may, I'll move to the Chiropractic Association for a moment. Speaking about the U.S. experience, does DVA now pay for chiropractic services to veterans as part of their medical support?
10:15 a.m.
Doctor of Chiropractic, Canadian Chiropractic Association
Yes, depending on their classification and what their release issues were when they departed the military.
10:15 a.m.
Doctor of Chiropractic, Canadian Chiropractic Association
Yes. Generally 10 visits, but up to 20 visits to a chiropractor are covered per year.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
It's already recognized as a medical service for those who have service-related injuries.
10:15 a.m.
Doctor of Chiropractic, Canadian Chiropractic Association
Yes, it's after their release, and that's in the community.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
I gather you're looking for, perhaps, two things. One is that your services would be paid for as part of medical services for existing CF members. Are you also seeking to encourage the government to hire chiropractors to work in medical clinics on bases, as they have in the U.S.?
10:15 a.m.
Doctor of Chiropractic, Canadian Chiropractic Association
That would be exactly right.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
What's your ask? Could you summarize your ask in terms of what kind of recommendation this committee ought to make if we accept your presentation?
10:15 a.m.
Doctor of Chiropractic, Board Member, Canadian Chiropractic Association
We would ask that the military consider a strategy like they had for the mental health strategy. First of all, assess the severity of the challenge, and then outline strategies to correct those challenges.
What we're finding with the research that's out there now, the newer research that's coming about, is that if chiropractors are an integral part of the MSK team, better care could be provided at a lower cost, or the same cost.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
One of the things you emphasized, in particular, in your example about the pilot, was the getting someone back to work or keeping someone working who might otherwise be off duty. That sounds like a good example, obviously anecdotal. Are there studies to back that up in terms of the kind of success chiropractic treatment has in maintaining someone in a job or at work, as opposed to being on sick parade or on leave?
10:15 a.m.
Doctor of Chiropractic, Canadian Chiropractic Association
There are a number of studies that have been published. Probably the most efficient one is that of the workers' compensation board in Ontario and, I believe, Manitoba. They have shown that early intervention in a strategy with a pathway outlined, in other words, a specific protocol followed, and review of that on a timely basis as opposed to an ongoing treatment.... Timely and structured evaluation of the patient's condition does return them to work faster at a lower cost. Workmen's compensation has been one of the better ones.
There are a number of other studies. As I said, Dr. Goertz published in Spine in 2013, by looking at the overall costs of medical treatment, and then medical treatment plus chiropractic care, and showed a faster return, and Heymans did, as well, to their working duties, active duty, and expenditures were smaller.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Do you have any concerns about being accepted as part of a medical team with other professionals?
10:20 a.m.
Doctor of Chiropractic, Canadian Chiropractic Association
None. In fact, during the expert panel, I was pleasantly surprised at the degree of acceptance of spinal manipulation as a therapeutic model. The problem will be to get on base.
A study done in Ottawa looked at the relationship between the working team and the inclusion of a chiropractor over a course of about 18 months. The study showed there was increasing confidence of the practitioners in providing chiropractic care as they interacted with the individuals. The team really began to coalesce and collaborate at a much higher level as that cooperation became more intact.
We wanted to provide a basis to show that in the Canadian military. The Canadian Chiropractic Association has proposed a study to be embarked upon, where five centres would be selected, and chiropractors would work on teams to develop a rationale for how we're going to do that effectively.
