National Defence Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2018

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You've been at every one since you've been minister.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, I have.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

The 2015 one would have been your first one.

Between November 20 and 22, 2015, in your meeting with Irving, did you have Minister Brison there on the phone, or was he actually—

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

On a point of order—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

This is relevant.

He just answered the question on the security forum, and this is part of the witness testimony that I now want to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

There's a point of order on the floor.

Mr. Spengemann, you have the floor.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think the committee has invited the minister to testify about Bill C-77. I don't see, at all, how that is relevant to the topic that's at issue here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

As the point of order is to relevance in accordance to Bill C-77 , an act to amend the National Defence Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other acts, I tend to agree.

The point of order is sustained.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

In the testimony of the witness, the minister talked about the Halifax security forum. I want to ask a question about the Halifax security forum. It is on the record.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I sustain the point of order.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I don't think the minister needs the protection of the chair. He's a veteran, a police officer. I think that he's more than able to answer my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Do you have a relevant question, Mr. Bezan?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I would be interested to find out what happened at the meeting with Irving that was not publicly disclosed.

Let's look at this. According to the most recent report of the Auditor General on the administration of justice in the Canadian Forces, one of the major problems identified in the military justice system was a lack of timely disclosure of evidence for the accused so they could adequately address the charges against them.

Do you agree that it could harm the person's defence if the person is not given adequate disclosure in order to defend their case, yes or no?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm going to pass that on to the JAG.

In terms of this Bill C-77 and how important this is to looking after our people, let's remember that your government put this in during the dying days of the last Parliament. I think this is where we need to keep focused as all members of Parliament, and not allow other issues to take away from this very important work. This is about our women and men in the Canadian Forces.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Actually, it was directly linked, Mr. Chair.

Minister, this is directly related to the Auditor General's report from the spring. They were just at committee with Commodore Bernatchez. It was a fairly controversial meeting, because of the timeline and the failure on making sure that the principles of Jordan's decision are upheld within the Canadian Armed Forces. Everyone needs a timely legal process.

Why are we not getting that information to members so they can properly defend themselves before the JAG?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

This bill will allow us to be more efficient to make sure that we can actually move cases a lot faster by hitting, as the JAG said, 90% of where the blockages are, making it easier for the chain of command to go through the hearing process.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

It does stand to reason, then, that members should be given all information so they can properly defend themselves within any judicial process.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We want to make sure that legal process is followed.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

The current Liberal government has chosen not to disclose critical information for the defence team of Vice-Admiral Norman. This failure to disclose critical information.... This is military justice.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have a point of order. The normal—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

We don't even have to be talking about this—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You're pausing the time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

No, we're not pausing the time. You're choosing to continue a line of questioning is not in relation to the order of reference.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

[Inaudible—Editor]