National Defence Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2016

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

First, it wouldn't change the fact that substituting members have privileges. They'd be considered members of the committee.

Second, in the event that the government decided that it was worthwhile to have the parliamentary secretary participate in a committee meeting, especially if we were talking about a particular study and we wanted to make sure that we had the calendar of the minister and availability of the minister to appear, maybe on estimates or supplementary estimates, which is often information that the parliamentary secretary is aware of, we may want to have him attend our meeting. This would also provide us with the ability to do that, so it does provide greater certainty in how we manage our affairs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Is there more discussion?

Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'll just say that although I appreciate Mr. Bezan's intent, it seems redundant. This is already the case. This is already defined.

It seems as though you're just reaffirming what is already supposed to be the practice. It may not have happened exactly like that—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

That's the issue.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

—but that doesn't mean that it's not already enshrined within our rules.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Every committee is the master of its own domain, so every committee can set the rules that govern their operations. This would be part of our routine motions and would help us deal with these circumstances that might be considered “practice”, but sometimes things around here that are commonalities aren't always the practice of committee. This actually puts it out clearly.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, maybe you could ask the clerk to clarify. I'm not trying to get the clerk into the debate, but is what's being proposed here already enshrined within our procedural orders?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Go ahead. Cut to the chase.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Just factually, I'm not trying to drag you into the debate.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Philippe Grenier-Michaud]

Basically, regarding the participation of non-members in committee proceedings, there's a quote in the book that says usually when a committee proceeds to sit in camera, non-members will leave by themselves as a courtesy, but the committee can, by a motion, allow non-members or anybody else to stay. The intent of the motion, I guess—and I don't want to speak for Mr. Bezan—is to make sure that for every occasion, if a non-member is present in camera, unanimity will need be sought and obtained for that member to stay.

[An hon. member]

But not an affiliated member.

[The Clerk]

No, this won't apply to a substitute or an official member, only to other members present in the room. Because of Standing Order 114, if a member is a substitute, he's acting as a member.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Just for clarity, we already have to put forward a motion to accept the other individual anyway.

[The Clerk]

The committee could. Usually, the committee, as an express way, will seek unanimous consent because it's easier and quick, but the rules are—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I saw the rules. It says, unanimous consent or majority.

[The Clerk]

Yes, “or”.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Right, so in unanimous consent, you do it without a motion, and for a majority, you use a motion to do it.

[The Clerk]

Exactly, so—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

It would appear to me as though this is already taken care of in our procedural bylaws.

[The Clerk]

This motion is more strict.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

This gets rid of the unanimous consent.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

No, this is unanimous consent.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Oh, you're requiring it to only be....

[An hon. member]

As opposed to a majority.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Right. I don't know about that.

The majority rules. Come on now.