Evidence of meeting #33 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fleet.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
There were problems with icebreaking. Do you consider that you have absolutely everything you need?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have what we need, because we now have new services. We had some difficult winters, and some breakdowns prevented us from providing all of the expected services. However, there are some investments being made. My colleague spoke of extending the life of our ships. We take vessels out of the water for eight to ten months of the year to do a major overhaul, so that when these ships are put back in service, they are much more reliable and remain available. I often point to one of our icebreakers, CCGS Amundsen, as an example that illustrates the success of that program. We took that icebreaker out of the water for 10 months. After its refit, there has not been one day when mechanical problems prevented it from being in service.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Let's go back to the culture of the Canadian Coast Guard. Unless I'm mistaken, you have for the past 50 years and even more had a very peaceful culture. You are more involved in monitoring, you help to transport goods to northern communities, and do things of that nature.
When examining the various aspects of the navy and the global environment, one sees that the threats are different. We spoke of the Northwest Passage earlier.
Do you think the CCG should change its culture in a major way? For instance, should you become the equivalent of the U.S. coast guard and train employees in-house to be able to conduct armed interventions? In fact, you are dependent on everyone else; you are not self-sufficient when it comes to security.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That question can be looked at from various angles. The most extreme approach is that we could be armed. An intermediate approach would give us the power to implement certain regulations. For instance, under the Canada Shipping Act, Transport Canada is responsible for ensuring that ships are safe, among other things. For our part, if we detect an issue, we report it, and then it is up to Transport Canada to decide whether to act or not. Naturally, if we had the additional power of being able to enforce certain laws, that would be an additional step. The ultimate step would be to have armed personnel on board who could enforce certain other laws.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
The terrorist attack that took place here in Ottawa two years ago is one example. We saw that there was a problem with security services on the Hill and with the RCMP.
The maritime patrol is in a somewhat similar situation. If something happens and you can't deal with it, you call on the Royal Canadian Navy or the RCMP to obtain resources.
For instance, if you arrive somewhere and see that the Chinese have settled in and are drilling, what can you do besides report it? Aside from telling the Chinese to leave, you have no recourse.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do not have that power. It would be an extreme situation that—
Conservative
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would prefer not to venture to answer hypothetical questions.
A bit earlier I spoke of the Marine Security Operations Centres. We work in very close co-operation with the other agencies. As we analyze a situation or a risk develops, since we are in constant contact, it is easy to participate in those discussions.
Take the Farley Mowat as an example, from a few years ago. We knew that it was involved in illegal activities. We sat down with our colleagues from Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the RCMP to plan an intervention which was carried out very effectively. They needed an icebreaker to get there and we were able to provide that service.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Do I still have a little time left?
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Fine.
What is your relationship with the U.S. Coast Guard like? On the east coast or the west coast, do you sometimes have to call on it for certain operations because you do not have the necessary capacity?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would say that our relations with them are more crucial regarding the lakes and the Arctic. We also have contacts with them on the coasts as well. Normally this occurs during operations at the borders or in zones of responsibility. I spoke of the lakes, but our relationship is broader than that. There is also icebreaking, for which we have a treaty with the U.S. Coast Guard. We offer this service whether the vessel following the icebreaker is Canadian or American. In this way we can cover a much broader territory and maximize resources.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Do the Americans have icebreakers in the north or in the Arctic to conduct icebreaking operations? If they do it is in Alaska, I expect.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Icebreaking is done on lakes specifically. Yes, the Americans have icebreakers in the Arctic. We have co-operated with them on scientific operations mostly for the purpose of mapping the seabed. This requires two icebreakers. They have a high-capacity icebreaker and we have one as well. In this way, we can multiply our resources.
Conservative
Liberal
Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC
Good morning. I thank you for being here with us and for answering our questions.
You spoke of a long-range system used to identify and locate ships. You said that you were able to monitor over 1,000 ships over a distance of more than 2,000 nautical miles. The Poseidon project was presented to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard. We are speaking here about an interface that would allow for information to be gathered. It would allow, for instance, to know what vessels are entering fishing zones, how close fishing vessels and refrigerated ships were, when vessels start moving again, and so on.
Do you think that this project could decrease the number of sea excursions and costs? Do you think that this system could be effective?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I am not familiar with the Poseidon project, but I can say that on the operational level information is crucial. The more we have, the more we can make enlightened decisions and respond effectively.
Since I am not aware of this project in particular, I can only provide a general answer. Indeed, the more information we have on marine traffic or activities, the better the decisions we can make. They can be decisions that require action on our part, or decisions that will require that we ask other organizations to intervene or validate information.
Liberal
Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC
Fine.
When the project was presented, they spoke of approximately 15 sources of information that could be grouped, which would facilitate your decisions.
The Arctic was discussed at some length. I think that global warming means that we have to be better informed and intervene. I just got back from a NATO meeting and Russia is reported to be much more active and is expanding its fleet of icebreakers. These are mostly nuclear-powered icebreakers.
Does this concern you? Are we sufficiently equipped to face these new requirements or are there deficiencies? Should we have more icebreakers, especially a nuclear-powered icebreaker?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
As for the Russian icebreaker fleet, it was developed to meet the needs of the Russians in their own waters.
Insofar as we are concerned, should we have a greater presence? I always answer yes to that question. That is why we are very pleased that National Defence is building patrol ships for the Arctic. What this will mean ultimately is that it will multiply our presence in the Arctic and that is always positive. In fact, the more present we are, the more coverage we can provide and the more intervention possibilities there are.
Liberal
Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC
More specifically, should you have a nuclear-powered icebreaker? Is that a need for the future?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
This nuclear technology is completely different from what we are used to. It requires completely different expertise. Consequently, we are not considering that option at this time.
The Canadian Coast Guard has been a leader in diesel-electric propulsion. We have developed that technology considerably and we have expertise there. It is also very reliable. This is what we have focused on up till now.
Liberal
Jean Rioux Liberal Saint-Jean, QC
You say that nuclear power is another technology altogether. However, do you already have heavy icebreakers? For the future, we are mostly talking about the John G. Diefenbaker. Can that compete with what Russia has?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Absolutely. We have done studies and that ship could be in service all year long in the Canadian Arctic and meet the needs particular to that region. Of course we will have to do maintenance, but it can be in service everywhere in the Canadian Arctic at all times, even in December or January.
