National Defence Committee on April 4th, 2017

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Around performance metrics, I know you're probably not into it, but again I would like to know about performance-based contracting and how you would rate the department in terms of where we're at with performance-based contracting for in-service support contracts.

[Jody Thomas]

I don't have any detail on that at this point.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Fantastic.

I wish you all the best. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Mr. Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Thomas, thanks for being here. Thank you for your service.

I'd like to start with a fairly broad question, but I want to connect it to the programs we're engaged in on the procurement side, such as the national shipbuilding strategy.

In your view, what do Canadians not know about the armed forces that they ought to know? Where are there some gaps in communication and awareness? Think as broadly as you see fit in answering that question. I'm trying to get to the point of what we need to do to better prepare ourselves for significant programs such as the national shipbuilding strategy and public support of those programs.

[Jody Thomas]

That's a hard question for me to answer because I grew up knowing about the Canadian Armed Forces. It's just a part of who I am as an individual.

I think the critical importance of the Canadian Armed Forces to who we are as a country isn't always well understood in some pockets. I think if you're a coastal community or you're near a large base, or you've been the recipient of humanitarian aid from the Canadian Armed Forces domestically, you understand. You see it. But I think that understanding the role of Canada in the world, the role the forces play as an arm of government policy and government intent, isn't well understood. But I think it's increasing. I think that the armed forces are appreciated by the Canadian public in a way they've never been since probably World War II. You see that trend of appreciation for the service of people, and I think it's quite extraordinary. I think that informing Canadians about the Canadian Armed Forces is a continual cycle. It doesn't stop and start. There is no campaign to inform. It's just constant communication about the role of the Canadian Armed Forces, overseas and domestically: search and rescue, community support, the economic benefit of having a base in a community, and then the work that's done overseas.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

What would be the one or two primary factors of your conclusion that things are changing in terms of public perception?

[Jody Thomas]

I think back to when I was serving, and I think back to when my father was serving, and we didn't get thanks for our service on Remembrance Day when we were downtown. I went downtown every year. I've always gone, in uniform or not. When I was commissioner, the coast guard people would stop and thank me for my service. That's quite an extraordinary thing to have happen.

People see somebody in uniform in an airport, and they let them board first. That's an extraordinary thing to happen, and it wouldn't have happened 20 or 25 years ago. It's not anything that I can put my finger on. I think there is a general appreciation that is different from the way it used to be, and I think it's a really positive thing.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

That's helpful. Thank you for that.

To narrow it somewhat and talk a little bit about human resources in the Canadian Forces, what in your view is the current state in regard to Canadians who are considering the Canadian Forces as a career option, going all the way into the trades and science, technology, engineering, math, and leadership positions? I'm particularly interested in your thoughts on young women. How have things changed there, and what might be some gaps that you could address either directly through your new role or that the Canadian Forces could address more systematically?

[Jody Thomas]

Well, the first thing that's changed is that women are equals in the Canadian Armed Forces, and when I joined they were not. When I joined the armed forces, I was in this thing called the summer youth employment program. I won't have the numbers exactly right, but there were 150 seventeen- to nineteen-year-old kids, 60 or 70 of whom were invited to join the naval reserve at the end of the summer program. Ten per cent could be women. That's just the way it was. We were allowed to do—and it was the first year it was allowed—only three trades that could go to hard sea trades. That was considered quite adventurous. The naval reserve was doing it; the regular force wasn't; and the other branches of the reserves were not.

Things have changed significantly. The chief of the defence staff has been adamant that the number of women recruited is going to increase by 1% per year. They're working very hard at that. It's, again, about getting out to communities, to schools, and to youth groups to talk to youth about a career in the armed forces and helping them understand the range of careers that are ahead of them. It is not one career when you join the armed forces; it is a range of opportunities, a range of experiences, and it needs a range of people with different skill sets.

It's something I'm quite passionate about, and I think we need to get to young women, in particular, earlier, and not in grade 12 when they're looking at universities or what their career is going to be when they're finished high school. We have to start talking to kids when they're in grade 8 and in grade 10 when they're diverted and distracted by other things. Sitting in a classroom isn't necessarily what inspires them in the course of a day. We want to get to those kids and tell them about the opportunities that are out there for them.

I was that kid and I liked being on the job and learning things. I went to university and did all those kinds of things, but the opportunity to go to sea, to be in the forces, and to spend my summers having a completely different kind of workplace experience and one that has helped me throughout my career is, I think, an amazing story for the forces to tell and we just need to tell it more.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

In the same breath, that would be an answer to my first question also. People who have gone through the summer employment program or similar programs, not having chosen a permanent career, look at the Canadian Forces in a very different way than they would have prior to entry into those programs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to have to end it there. That's your five minutes. Thanks.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to hand the floor over to Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Senior Associate Deputy Minister, thank you for attending our meeting today.

In your opening remarks, you stated that your husband is a medically released commander in the navy. What was the length of time between the day he was released and the day he received his first pension payment?

[Jody Thomas]

He is a reserve officer, so it is a completely different situation for him in terms of benefits.

I will be completely honest with you that he told me there were some delays. I didn't pay as much attention as I should have, frankly. He did have some delays. He was getting a lump sum because he was a reserve officer and had already left the regular force and had transferred his pension into an RRSP.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay, so there was a lump sum. From the day he was out of the military until the day he received that lump sum, what length of time had passed?

[Jody Thomas]

I can't say. As I said, it was weeks or months. No, it was months.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Because he was medically released and the spouse of somebody who has a plan, there may be additional benefits to what he would receive in health benefits. If he were entitled to any expenses or benefits above and beyond related to his medical release, what length of time did it take for him to receive those?

[Jody Thomas]

Because he had a pre-existing condition, and it wasn't from military service, he wasn't getting any medical expenses paid for.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Very good. Thank you.

As the head of the Government of Canada's civilian fleet and the Coast Guard, you mention that you responded to approximately 27 search and rescue cases on a daily basis.

You've seen what the people who worked at the Coast Guard every day in saving lives were faced with. In your opinion, do you think there should be any mandatory requirement for smaller vessels to have some sort of EPIRB system in them so that if they go missing, or you get a distress signal, you at least have something to follow?

[Jody Thomas]

I absolutely believe that. It is something we advocate for within the Coast Guard. The office of boating safety belongs to Transport Canada, and that regulatory regime is in Transport Canada. As the search and rescue agency that was responsible for maritime search and rescue, anything that takes the search out of the rescue is useful and, in some cases, critical to finding somebody alive.

The more we can do to ensure that people understand their responsibilities before they go out on a vessel, that they understand the rules and the practices of safe boating, and that they have the safety equipment on board, including EPIRBs, personal floatation devices, and immersion suits—depending on where you're going and the time of year—makes all the difference.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

On average, what proportion of the search and rescue time is spent on the search if you don't have a location?

[Jody Thomas]

There's no one answer to that question. It depends on the location of the search, how we were contacted, and the information we were given at the time. If somebody calls and says, “I'm having problems with my vessel and here's my location”, it's easier.

We often get a call from a family member. They are 40 km, 50 km, 60 km, 70 km offshore, and we have to get to them. All those things affect the time. Minutes matter in the ocean, and the more information we have, the easier it is. You can get a helicopter to somebody to lift them out of the water if you know the location.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Let's go to further closing the seam between the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Canada. I'm going back to my initial question.

We're told that one of the Queen's regulations stipulates that an individual who is releasing from the military cannot apply for veterans benefits until they cease to be a serving member of the forces.

Are you familiar with that regulation?