National Defence Committee on June 20th, 2017

[John Forster]

Yes, it will be in the supplementary estimates this fall.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

In the supplementary estimates. Okay. That's good news, but it hasn't been anywhere in any of the stuff that has been presented to us.

[John Forster]

Because the policy came after the budget and after the main estimates, the normal process is that we would come to committee in the supplementary estimates to request the additional funding.

One last point is that, as I said, there's $6 billion over the first five years. In Defence, you need to ramp that up at a moderate, reasonable pace. There's no point in putting huge amounts in the first year if you're not going to be able to ramp up the capability, hire the staff, and recruit more military members. There is a planned schedule of implementation that's behind those numbers.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

With respect, if we're having supplementary estimates sometime in the fall, then it's going to be quite a while before this money gets out the door.

One of the other things in the defence review discusses what I would call “providing a Canadian military that reflects the Canadian population”. I applaud the government for its goals, but we had the Auditor General say last fall that his office couldn't find any evidence of very specific plans to reach those targets, whether in regard to women in the military, or aboriginal people, or visible minorities.

We asked you in the estimates debate if you would table those policies, and you said that you would when they were fully developed. Now today you said in your opening statement that we “have put in place targeted initiatives to attract, enrol, and retain women and men who reflect the diversity of Canadians.”

What are those targeted initiatives, and will you table those with this committee so we can see that the initiatives actually exist and there are resources behind them?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'll get the chief to answer that question, but for the Canadian Armed Forces to be able to recruit, attract, and retain personnel, they require the resources given to them. The defence policy now provides that solid commitment to the Canadian Armed Forces—

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

So there are new resources?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

—and the predictable, sustainable funding to be able to do this.

Chief, do you want to add to it?

[Gen Jonathan Vance]

Thanks, Minister.

Perhaps when I'm done, I can give a little bit of time to the chief of military personnel, General Lamarre, who is here.

We have a number of initiatives, as the minister said. Most of them are done under my orders in terms of direction and intent. The policy states the policy intent, and we are in the process and will continue to be in the process of drafting plans.

For example, Operation Honour is an initiative to alter the culture of the armed forces so there is a recognized requirement to create conditions in the armed forces that women, whether they are in or are interested in joining us, would find the forces welcoming and inclusive. That's an initiative.

My direction to increase the recruiting of women by 1% per year has been done. We are now recruiting more women annually, and the numbers are up this year. We have more diversity in recruiting right now this year. This is a direction to my chief of military personnel to do things.

There are other things. There's targeted early recruitment into the Royal Military College, so we have early spotting of good candidates and we go out and make them early offers like other great universities do.

Chuck, is there anything else you want to add?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

So you have the resources?

[Gen Jonathan Vance]

We do.

[Lieutenant-General Charles Lamarre, Commander Military Personnel Command , Department of National Defence]

We have the resources.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Are those in the existing budget, or are they in the supplementary estimates that we're waiting for in the fall.

[Gen Jonathan Vance]

We have sufficient resources now to do the plans. As the supplementary estimates come and the new money comes, we will be increasing the recruiting to grow the size of the force.

I can tell you that I'm far more concerned and consumed right now with being able to spend the supply than I am with the supply itself, so I am moving out hard to make certain we can do that.

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

Thanks very much.

With the announcement of the policy, the CDS gave us clear direction, which we in turn within the military personnel recruiting group have put out into a planning cycle. We will have a very specific operation that will look at reducing the recruiting time from wherever it is right now to approximately 30 days from the time that an individual indicates their interest to their coming forward so we can process them very quickly. That was in the policy, and we have that mandate.

We also have, of course, the mandate to look for the specific “targeted populations” we need to do that. I use that terminology to say that we're looking to increase our diversity. Specifically, all the advertising campaigns, all the reaching out through social media, all the making sure we can reach out to the folks that might be interested will be geared towards the way they communicate and the way they are interested in being communicated with. I think that from looking at that, we will have accelerated processes that can bring them in rapidly.

We will be hiring 40 more case managers in the next year specifically to handle the recruit files. We are increasing the amount of resources and number of instructors at our leadership recruit school, which has to process and give the recruits basic training, to make sure we can actually do that throughput to meet the targets we have in front of us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

That's your time, Mr. Garrison. I'm going to have to yield the floor to Mr. Fisher for seven minutes.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. I always appreciate your feedback in response to our questions. Congratulations on releasing the departmental performance report.

Operational stress injuries, mental health issues, and post-traumatic stress disorder have emerged as a scourge for members of our Canadian Armed Forces and, very importantly, their families. I appreciate the fact that the DPR speaks to that, especially as these issues seem to have slipped between the cushions of the couch for years. We haven't focused on the fact that these issues really do affect families as well. Our men and women who have served have sacrificed so much in defence of this country that I feel it's important that we do everything to provide them with the appropriate care.

Mr. Garrison touched on this, but in my riding this a huge, huge issue. I've hosted two mental health town halls in Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, with plans to do a series more. They're very well attended, and the responses and suggestions we get are very thoughtful and helpful, albeit there is a lot of concern. Mr. Garrison talked about the fact that people are now talking about this more. I think it's imperative for us to encourage that, and I'm glad to hear General Vance say that they encourage that in the military.

Can you update us on specifically what the new defence policy will do to provide care and support for our military members as far as mental health goes?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Before I pass to the chief for further details, I would say that this is one of the reasons that we focused on this in the defence policy. The main focus is on our personnel because the town halls and online discussions were focused on making sure that we look after our Canadian Armed Forces personnel, number one. That was the number one ask of Canadians. That's one reason that we have focused the defence policy on this. But it also requires that we not just put the money in place, but also make sure that we have enough members as well, because with all the commitments that we ask of our members, making sure that we actually have enough personnel is the reason that we're growing the forces well and focusing on other initiatives that look after the members' families, whether it's on base, or on postings.

For any further details, I'll pass it over to the chief.

[Gen Jonathan Vance]

Thank you, Minister.

Specifically, we're going to grow the size of the medical branch so there is more first-line care for people on bases, on deployment. We will have more capacity to treat people forward—the best place to deal with the beginning of a mental health challenge—as well as taking care of them at home and, as importantly, invest in mental health care through the process of transition out of the armed forces.

People leaving the armed forces in the past have gone through a bureaucratic process that was essentially designed to get them out and move them on. We need to professionalize that. I've spoken about this before. People will go not only through detailed health screenings, but we will make certain that if there are residual mental health injuries that need to be dealt with—that is a hot hand-off—those people will be properly cared for.

At the same time, because the armed forces will grow, we will have more room to retain people inside the armed forces for longer periods of time if they are dealing with a long-term injury. That way, there's a better chance that we will be able to treat them, help them recover, and perhaps they'll go back to duty inside the armed forces.

At this juncture, our timelines to release someone on what we call a “permanent category”, with their being permanently disabled, need to change. So if someone will take longer than what we've prescribed right now, but they will recover, maybe we'll give them more time.

We have a suicide prevention strategy. We have a mental health strategy. We're going to ensure that all of what we do, including transition, deployment support, and redeployment support, includes the families, because family mental health is very important. Money is going to be assigned to great research through Status of Women grants on family violence and gender-based violence.

All of this will combine with a concerted effort to alter the structure of a member's career path, so it doesn't become an overriding concern and members will not avoid seeking mental health treatment when they ought to, for fear of losing their jobs.

There's no question about it, sir, that if you cannot be a productive member of the armed forces, then at some point, we have to part ways, but I think a great deal more can be done over a longer period of time to ensure that they can, and there are ways we intend to use to retain people, so they can serve. All of that, I think, will help relieve people of the inordinate stress that goes on.

One final thing is that we need to work on resilience. Military duty is hard. It's hard for a reason, because we're put in challenging arenas, and people must be able to handle the rigours and stress of military operations. At the same time, we need to make military life and family life far more consistent and far more even and, quite frankly, we need to recognize the fact that it's special. It's part of the service too and we need to ensure that there is the correct compensation and benefits, and that family support services are in place that directly address the unique characteristics of military life.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much.

A lot of constituents in Dartmouth—Cole Harbour are in the shipbuilding industry. I'm proud to say that all the metal, all the steel, is being cut in Dartmouth and that Nova Scotia has a rich heritage of shipbuilding.

I'm pleased to see that we've committed to building all 15 of the surface combatants. I was a little shocked at the price tag, but I'm pleased to see that we've endorsed that commitment. I think investment is needed to address the long-standing capability gap.

With the Department of National Defence taking over managing 80% of the defence procurement contracts, will the department be managing the ongoing procurement of these ships? Will we see any differences? Will we see improvements in the way we traditionally see procurement, because we've seen a real issue with procurement—past governments included?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

First of all, for overall procurement—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to have to go to the next person to keep everybody on time. So hold that answer, and if we have time, we'll circle back.

I'm going to yield the floor to Mr. Spengemann. You have five minutes.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Minister, it's great to have you here. Thank you to you and your team of senior officials, both civilian and military, and for your service to our nation.

Minister, you've touched on elements of the vision that's driving the defence policy review. Could you take a moment to summarize your thoughts? What's the vision behind this document that you've put forward?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

In the overall vision, as I said, the number one focus is always making sure that we invest in the number one capability of the Canadian Armed Forces, our members, and making sure of their care, and also that we have the right sized force.

Within the overall policy, the reason we named it “Strong, Secure, Engaged” is that Canadians expected, during the consultations, that we would have the right resources and be strong at home, whether in supporting domestic operations and our sovereignty, or having all the right capabilities, and that is one of the real focuses there.

The other portion is to be secure in North America with our number one partner, our ally, the U.S. That's one of the reasons we're going to be starting discussions with the United States on NORAD modernization and the north warning system, to make sure we are looking at all perils and all threats and that we modernize our force to keep in line and build a proper system, the system that is going to be needed.

Finally, there is engagement in the world. We need to do our part. Multilateralism is important, but to do that we need to make sure that we have the right sized force; hence, the reason we're going to sustain the level of operations that our government or any future governments ask of the Canadian Armed Forces, but, more importantly, to make sure that we have the modern equipment to be able to do it, including a modern navy and a modern air force and enough boots on the ground with our army and the right capabilities to be able to carry out engagement in the world.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you for that.

Minister, the document also makes reference to the “global context”—I think that's the terminology used—and the changes that are currently going on. Not to be overly simplistic, it's a messy world out there and becoming even messier in some respects. Could you summarize for the committee what that context looks like and the challenges it imposes?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

On the security context, one of the things we started with was to understand the threat that's out there, speaking with our closest allies on this, making sure that we have Canadian Armed Forces that are well supported and well resourced for full-on conventional war fight, but at the same time being resourced so that they will be able to adapt to the various threats that are out there—hence, our support with Operation IMPACT currently, our leadership role in NATO, and our eventual peace support operations trying to reduce conflict. We're basically making sure that the Canadian Armed Forces has the full range, the full spectrum, the full-on conventional operations capability to do peace support operations and why we, as the government, are resourcing the Canadian Armed Forces so that the military leadership can make the right plans and give the right advice to government on that.