Afghanistan was a totally different war. They didn't have the capabilities of the Russians, but the Afghans threw the Russians out or made them withdraw, so they must have done something right.
What I'm saying is that instead of just giving them basic military training, we need to give them full-spectrum training. They need training right across the board. As I said, that involves everything, not just from a military perspective but also from a government perspective, an economic perspective, a financial perspective, a legal perspective, and all these other things.
If we decide on a whole-of-government approach to this, we should expect the same from Ukraine. We should expect it to do exactly the same thing. Then that way we're working on the same page, as opposed to working on what we think is right.
