Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I was just enjoying the conversation until this last round. I have a completely different idea on sanctions, as a sponsor in the House of the Magnitsky legislation. I think that targeted sanctions against individuals who are creating all the corruption and human rights abuses have been very effective. If you look at the recent list of 52 people—I'll give the government credit on this—you see that the number one name on that list is President Maduro from Venezuela. We are going after some of the leaders.
In respect to what Professor Sedra just said, we want to have a dialogue with Russia. That is why you don't see President Putin or Lavrov on that list, so that there can still be those discussions, but the senior kleptocrats around the regime in the Kremlin are definitely getting sanctioned and getting targeted. I hope to see that expand, because I think that's the only way we can actually change the individual attitudes of making these decisions, versus.... I agree. That's why we are not doing broad-based sectoral sanctions on commodities or resources, because of the impact that would have on the people. That's whom we want to win over to our side, versus what we are seeing happening in Russia.
Last week, there was a development over in Europe. Twenty-three members of the European Union signed on to a new defence security agreement called PESCO, the permanent structured co-operation arrangement. Do you see that as being in competition with NATO? How would that impact the north Atlantic security that we have in place through NATO?
I'll let both of you answer that question.