Evidence of meeting #85 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was certainly.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
MGen A. D. Meinzinger
That I would have to confirm. I'm not aware of that particular activity.
I'm aware of the model NATO effort that occurs. We hosted one at the college while I was commandant. We ran a similar type of activity, because I think it's great in terms of the skills that it brings to bear. It certainly broadens the horizons.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr
Thank you.
I'm going to give MP Maguire some time.
You can circle back on your question if you like.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you.
I want to thank you, General Seymour, for your answer in regard to the conference that's going to be held in Halifax. That was pretty quick. Thank you.
Can you elaborate on that? I want to look at NATO's role in the Arctic and the future role that you see in the Arctic.
MGen William Seymour
The Arctic security forces round table, which is called the northern flanks meeting as well, is where we talk about security issues. It gets together on an annual basis. I participated in the last one in northern Sweden. We have the Arctic countries coming together with a number of observers to dialogue about their activities in the Arctic.
We talk a lot about information sharing, training and readiness, and operations in the Arctic, and what kinds of equipment you can bring to bear to operate in the Arctic. We dialogue about the threats that exist in the Arctic, the Russian threat in particular. In Europe, that's the one that's most prominent for them.
Our desire in bringing that forum to Canada is to offer them the Canadian perspective on how we see the Arctic. As you know, how you see something depends on where you stand and where you sit. What we're planning to do is offer our perspective on the Arctic and how it's changing, and how we see it as a place where nations need to co-operate actively within that environment rather than compete. That's one perspective. There's another perspective that operates and suggests that it's a place where that competition poses some kind of threat. To me, that's a very interesting piece.
We also want to highlight Canada's capability, which is growing, to operate in the Arctic. The “Strong, Secure, Engaged” policy talks about that. We chose Halifax in particular because they're building the new Arctic offshore patrol ship there. We want to show them that capability as a part of it. We designed all that because we're trying to leverage that kind of stuff that Canada is doing in the Arctic. It's a great opportunity to walk through those kinds of things.
I can certainly answer any questions you have about that.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you.
I've had the opportunity to be in Halifax and see the ships being built.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
It's pretty amazing. I'm looking forward to greater use of those.
It also leads me to believe, from some of the discussions I've had with some of the Russians and from being in the room with them in some of those discussions, that they have capabilities with new icebreakers and that sort of thing. We don't even have to rely on climate change to make those passageways more open.
Can you give us a bit of an update on what you think of that militarization of the Arctic, if it's there, particularly regarding Russia, as you mentioned? Is that undermining any of the co-operation and stability in that region?
MGen William Seymour
I think it depends on who you listen to in terms of why Russia is embarking upon the program it's doing in the north. Whether or not you perceive that as threat depends on who you speak to.
MGen William Seymour
From a military perspective, our job is to consider the worst-case scenario and be prepared, but take a look at the deep roots historically in Russia that focus on the Arctic; they're very much an Arctic nation. They have a considerable portion of their population up north with cities of one million-plus in the Arctic, which pales in comparison to our 115,000-plus in the Canadian Arctic. It's a vastly different story.
The Arctic is important to their economic future. It's not surprising to me that Russia would invest in security capability in a region that is so fundamentally important to the future of their economy.
They've staked a lot on their oil capacity. There's oil in the north. They've staked a lot on having their version of the Northwest Passage as the route of choice for international operators, companies, and countries that wish to use the Arctic to reduce that transshipment time.
In order to do that, you put search and rescue assets in place; you put security measures in place; you put informational measures in place. All of those things arguably could be done to accomplish an economic objective rather than some nefarious security objective. I can't speak for the Government of Canada, but I think you need to understand both sides of that and apply that kind of thinking to how we choose to operate in Canada.
Our view is more co-operative. Through the Arctic Council and the work that we do in the Arctic Council to have a dialogue about the Arctic, we see it as a place where we need to come together and recognize that multiple nations will be up there, with the increasing openness because of global warming. It's a very interesting conversation.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
There's definitely no doubt that they're going to use it for more commercialization, more delivery of goods, and park into those larger centres that they have in the Arctic that you referred to are the small populations that we have. I just wanted to relate to the security situation there and how it'll be monitored in the future and not just Canada's role but how does that fit in with the whole NATO role in the Arctic region in the near future.
MGen William Seymour
Perhaps General Joyce could refer to the NATO approach to the Arctic and the active role that it plays.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr
We will have to maybe get back to that. We do have some time but to be fair I have to yield the floor to Mr. Spengemann.
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Mr. Chair, thank you very much.
Gentlemen, I want to circle back to a couple of questions that were raised earlier, the first being the cyber-operator trade.
You had a conversation with my colleague, Ms. Romanado. Could you give the committee an indication, even with approximates, of when we will reach our targets in terms of capacity within the trade? How is the recruitment process going, and when can we expect to be meeting our needs?
MGen A. D. Meinzinger
I recommend that we take that one. I don't have that level of detail for you at the moment.
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
That's fine. If you could let the committee know, that would be great.
The second question is back to DND, not the the NORAD side but the NATO side, to pick up on the conversation with my colleague, Mr. Garrison. There's a disarmament conversation, and there's the deterrence conversation. I think this morning's article will invigorate both of those. I think they are part of a spectrum of discussion.
I wanted to see if you are willing to stipulate whether the article claims something that's factually accurate. In other words, is there a grade of weapons that has been developed or is about to be developed that is not interceptable?
Is this a conversation-changer, a game-changer in the sense that it will no longer be a tit-for-tat ratcheting up of efforts technologically to build faster weapons and intercepts? Are we reaching a threshold where interceptability is put into question permanently? How will that affect the discussion after that?
MGen Derek Joyce
That's a very interesting question. Thank you very much for that.
First of all, I will start off by saying that there's an election coming up in Russia. Let's use that as some context for what comes out of Moscow. Secondly, I would point out that ballistic missile defence is not advertised to counter the significant and long-term developed capabilities of China and Russia. It's designed for the “one ofs” of the regime—
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
I'm strictly focusing on the NATO side, potential bigger threats coming from China or Russia at NATO. That's my question—not within DND.
MGen Derek Joyce
Right. That you can trust.
Those are the comments that I would make at this point. None of us are munitions rocket experts or intelligence experts able to provide you with an assessment on whether or not those claims are accurate.
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Mr. Chair, those are my questions. I'm happy to delegate the remaining time to my colleagues.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr
Yes, we can do that.
There's a quick follow-up from Larry, and then I can come back to you.
Mr. Maguire.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Before we end here, I want to add my congratulations to the Canadian Armed Forces for the work you're doing in the enhanced forward presence in Latvia and the troops on the ground. I have the proud responsibility of representing the region that Canadian Armed Forces Base Shilo is in. I really appreciate working with the lieutenant colonels who have been there so readily. It's been a great relationship. I look forward to each of the opportunities I have to meet with them, which have been many in the last four years that I've had this role.
I just want to pass that on to you and congratulate you on all of your efforts in Latvia. I know that there are troops who just came back from there in mid-January. I want you to know that we certainly support all those efforts that you're doing in those areas and have been asked to do through NATO. I look forward to continuing opportunities to work with the base at Shilo myself and doing anything else we can do. Congratulations on that.
If there's anything you can do to add to our expansion of the role you're playing there right now, I'll give you the opportunity, if you like, to add any other voice to it.
