National Defence Committee on May 29th, 2018

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I want to thank you very much for your kind words.

To begin, and all of you know, it's very important, I think for all of us—and I appreciate how we all have viewpoints when it comes to defence—that we turn to our people who serve. All parliamentarians are looking at their best interest, but through different viewpoints. That, I sincerely appreciate.

When it comes to the peacekeeping or peace operation, whatever we want to call it, this is not about the numbers anymore. As an example, this is about understanding what contributions we can make that can have a substantial impact. What we have now announced, and what we're willing to do, is making sure that what we provide is going to enhance the various operations.

For example, with the Democratic Republic of Congo, we've been there for 18 years. At the end of the day, we do not want to just look at the numbers of people. Whether we send one person or 600, it's what contribution are they going to make, and are they going to be able to have that impact. I also want to make sure we take the time to make sure that whatever contribution we're going to make, it's going to have that impact. With that result, even if it takes a little longer, the impact might be greater.

We have taken that time. We know, for example, the contributions we're going to make in Mali for that one smart pledge will have an impact. When we decide where we're going to send the quick reaction force, we'll make certain it's going to have a direct impact. The numbers may fluctuate, but we're trying to do peacekeeping differently.

We have to look at the challenges that the UN has had to face. I'll give you an example. Troop-contributing nations have not come well trained. We're trying to address this with the potential capacity building that we will also do. This is about making sure, in a very complex environment—not just the realities on the ground, but also in a complex system within the United Nations—that any contributions we make will have an impact.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

We all recognize that and we recognize it's not an easy thing to address. When you talk so much about peacekeeping, the reality is that it's not only about the numbers, it's about the fact of what has been done in the last two and a half years. It's not as you said and as your government expected so much in the rhetoric three years ago.

The minister has just been talking about Mali. That affects us directly in Quebec, particularly in my constituency. Unlike my colleague from Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, I do not have the privilege of representing CFB Valcartier, but it is literally right next to my constituency.

As the minister knows, as all Canadians know, 430 Squadron from Valcartier will be deployed to Mali in the coming months. The squadron from Edmonton will go first, and then the one from Valcartier. These are people I know. I met some of them last weekend.

Mr. Minister, can you tell us whether they will be deployed to act as peacekeepers or to mount attacks against terrorists?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

When it comes to the conflict itself, we have to look at the reality on the ground. Various factions have signed on to agreement. We also know that the realities of peacekeeping have changed, and I've been very clear with Canadians and with all of you on this. This is not the peacekeeping of the past. It is with the intermix of radical groups, and everything from organized crime to governments themselves not being fully up to speed are part of the problem. We need to be able to make sure that we look at the realities of it, so when it comes to what we're sending, right now we're sending a capability for a mission that is sending helicopters for medical and transport support.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

You're talking about the new reality of the peacekeeping, but can we talk anymore about peacekeeping? We're talking about fighters. They will have to fight. They will have to react. They will have to respond to attacks on them. Are we talking about peacekeeping anymore?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

This is about what the reality on the ground is. This is not about looking at, for example, whether we start addressing it by certain names. Whether it's peacekeeping or what we talk about in terms of what we're doing in Iraq, that is a conversation that leads to, in my opinion, having radical conversations. We need to look at what the reality is on the ground, and that's what we need to discuss. Yes, those conflicts are pretty complex and are dangerous.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to have to hold it there. I let you run over a bit just to even out the time, but your time is up.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Really, Mr. Minister, this is not a matter of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

That means I'm going to have to yield the floor to another MP. Sorry about that.

MP Khalid, welcome. The floor is yours.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the minister and staff for all your hard work on this very important file.

I want to touch on gender balance within our Canadian Armed Forces. You touched on the Deschamps report as well, and I understand that it is a departmental goal to increase representation of women by 1% per year for the next 10 years. Can you explain how that will happen? What are the challenges you currently face in having more gender representation, and how are you going to overcome those challenges?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We are committed to making sure that we, first of all, create an environment in the Canadian Forces that's inclusive of all. When it comes to gender, the 1% increase is a way to start creating goals and targets that the military can work towards as set out by the chief of the defence staff. Even though it states 1% up to 25%, that is not an end goal. That is the start of the momentum, because the end goal is to represent the population that we serve and gender parity is the goal.

From that we also realize that we do have a tremendous amount of work to do. I'm extremely proud of the work that the leadership in the Canadian Armed Forces has done to address the horrific problems that were created for our members, and Operation Honour is doing just that. I would like to move faster on this, as would our leadership, but one thing I can assure you and all the members here is that no stone is being left unturned. We're putting the right investments in; we're making changes to policies; we're making sure that the military police have the right tools to be able to investigate. We're making changes to our military justice system so it can be more responsive, and at the same time, sending a very clear message in the Canadian Armed Forces that anything but zero tolerance is not going to be acceptable. We're demonstrating this.

We do have a lot more work to do. We will continue to adjust. As we recruit more people, we will give them the confidence that not only are they going to be looked after, but they're going to be able to excel. We're going to change the policies within the Canadian Armed Forces to make it far more inclusive, from their uniforms to their personal equipment. We will change some of the policies so that having a family will not be a hindrance to your career. Those are some of the things.

Are there certain numbers that you want to pass on there, please?

[RAdm D.C. Hawco]

I would build on your point from earlier, Minister, that retention is an extremely important part. We are very happy to see the challenges associated with attrition go down. We saw a drop from 7.9% to 7.5%, aiming towards getting to 7%.

As the minister also indicated, we have taken a number of steps to facilitate and enable the prioritization of files in recruiting centres. The women in force initiative allows for ladies to understand the uniqueness of service in the military before signing on. We had roughly 60 or so participate in that program, and about half immediately moved to enrolment.

We're taking a lot of innovative approaches to try to increase the awareness. We're very proud of the fact that we're one of the few, and first, militaries in the world that has no barriers to service by gender in any of our occupations in the military. It's an important challenge that we're grabbing to put that message out.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you.

I think this is a great leadership approach that you have taken in ensuring gender balance within the Canadian Armed Forces.

I want to move to a different issue that, I think, Canadians are very worried about: cybersecurity. I understand that in budget 2018 there was some money set aside for creating a centre to target cybersecurity, and to make sure that we're leaders on that front, as well.

In the main estimates, we see that there's an increase in funding for the Communications Security Establishment. Is there a link between our work on cybersecurity and this funding in the main estimates for the Communications Security Establishment?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, cybersecurity is something that we as a government are making a much greater focus. I'm going to have our acting chief talk a little bit more about this.

Canadians can be extremely proud of the work that has been done. We need to make sure that we put the right investments in the right place so that the tremendous brain power in our people is going to be better utilized, to make sure that we have the right research and development and create the right institutions so that we can work better together. Bill C-59 will also give us the legislative tools so that we can use those capabilities. Also, finally, CSE will be able to support the Canadian Armed Forces even better. There was an issue in the past that did not allow for this.

Shelly, do you want to just add to that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to move on to the last formal question.

I'm going to yield the floor to MP Garrison.

The floor is yours, sir.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to turn to an issue of concern generally, and that is the increased nuclear tensions around the world.

Whether it's with regard to the United States and North Korea, or to Russia's deployments in eastern Europe, we've had a lot of discussion of tactical nuclear weapons, giving us the whole idea that they're small, that they're only as big as what happened in Hiroshima. We've had some movements on U.S. nuclear doctrine that imply that first-use would occur earlier.

My question is about Canada's role in NATO. One of NATO's goals is to create a world that is free of nuclear weapons. I would like to know what initiatives Canada is taking at NATO in the areas of nuclear disarmament. Is that under your direction or the direction of the Minister of Foreign Affairs? We have a NATO ambassador there. We also have senior military members assigned to NATO. Who's in charge of the nuclear disarmament file? What initiatives have we actually taken?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

There is a NATO piece, and there's a much wider piece, as well.

NATO is not strictly about the defence ministers. There are also foreign ministers meetings, which lead up to all of us doing our work together. Every two years, we have a leaders' summit, and the leaders' summit is coming up in July. Global Affairs does have the lead when it comes to this.

However, this is where we do work very closely together. One example that was demonstrated extremely well was Minister Freeland's leadership with the United States, hosting foreign affairs ministers in Vancouver, when it comes to North Korea. We took a very strong stand on making sure we're going to support the sanctions and keep the pressure in place. More importantly, we stressed very clearly that this is a diplomatic thing to resolve. Through that work, we can be proud to say that Canada has contributed to some of the work that is being done currently, that you hear about in the news.

We are absolutely committed to making sure that we have the right rules, regulations, and treaties in place, and that they're also enforced, when it comes to nuclear weapons. We can't, obviously, have a repeat. There are no winners when it comes to a nuclear weapon, whether it's a small or big nuclear weapon. At the end of the day, a nuclear weapon is catastrophic for all of us.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

In terms of the NATO committee on disarmament that would deal with nuclear issues, who is sitting on that committee? There's supposed to be one, but it doesn't seem to be very active. Is that senior military officials, or is that from the Global Affairs side?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

No. Foreign affairs ministers also have their discussions, and our own ambassador does work. We as defence ministers do have discussions on this, as well, as we look at how to get NATO...making sure that we can keep tensions low and de-escalate situations. The work that we're doing, especially the message that we're trying to send to Russia, in addition to sending a very clear and strong deterrence message, is a message of unity, that the strength of NATO collectively is not one to be challenged.

At the same time, we want to have constructive dialogue so nations like Russia can get back into rules-based order. However, we also need to take a look at other nations that are directly or indirectly supporting the Russian military intelligence structure. We will always work with our allies in trying to reduce tensions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you very much, Minister, for coming today to discuss main estimates. I want to echo MP Deltell's comments earlier and thank you for your many years of distinguished service to Canada.

I'm going to suspend, let you depart, and then we can talk to the officials.

Did you want to say something before we go?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I just want to thank the committee. I have noticed when I've travelled that wherever you have gone, you really have demonstrated a team Canada atmosphere, and it's been noticed. I really do appreciate that. You see members from all parties going and looking at trying to improve our defence. That message of unity that you have sent has been noticed. I want to thank you for that.

We might have differences of opinion in the House, but every time you've travelled, you have sent a message of unity, and I really appreciate it. It makes my job a lot easier. I just wanted to thank you for your tremendous work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Minister.

I'm going to suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Before we resume with questions, as the committee knows, tomorrow night we'll be meeting with the U.K. Minister for Defence Procurement, and I think Mr. Spengemann wants to move a motion so we can facilitate that meeting.

Mr. Spengemann, go ahead.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I'd like to bring the following motion:

That the Committee approve the hospitality expenses for a dinner on Wednesday, May 30, 2018 in honour of Guto Bebb, Minister for Defence Procurement, Parliament of United Kingdom.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Is there any discussion?

Go ahead, Randall.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Again, late notice means I'm not available for this, so I will do my best to find a substitute, but I'll support the motion.