National Defence Committee on May 29th, 2018

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Would you commit to providing a report to this committee on the progress in revising those service records?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, as soon as I have greater details on that, I will definitely make sure you have that.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Okay, thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You have about a minute left.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

I will turn to the issue of Agent Orange at Gagetown. I know that the military did extensive studies but we've had some new eyewitness testimony about, perhaps, other sites where Agent Orange may have been buried on the base. Given that we know it causes cancer and given that we know we've had many serious problems as a result of the handling of Agent Orange at Gagetown, is there any reason why you wouldn't take seriously these new reports and investigate them? The costs of further cases of Agent Orange are huge, so a very small investment would allow you to look into this new testimony about, perhaps, other sites where Agent Orange was buried.

Is there any reason why you're not going to do this?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

No.

First of all, one thing I want to correct you on is how seriously we take the safety of our personnel, not only the military folks but also civilians, as well as the wider community. A significant amount of work has also been done in the past on this, and we are taking any disinformation very seriously to make sure that no stone is left unturned, to make sure we have the proper assurance that everything is being done.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Will you talk to the eyewitness and review the testimony on the actual site that this person says—

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I can assure you, based on the information, that work is being done on this.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you.

MP Robillard is next.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to you, Mr. Minister, and to all the witnesses.

In the listing of the 2018-19 transfer payments, the grant program to the national offices of the Cadet Leagues of Canada will be increased to $474,000 for each of the three following leagues: the Navy League of Canada, the Army Cadet League of Canada, and the Air Cadet League of Canada.

On which factors did the Department of National Defence base its request to increase the funding for this program?

What results does the Department of National Defence wish to obtain by increasing funds for these grants?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

As you know, and I've said this publicly, any time I speak with cadets I talk about the cadet program. In my opinion, it is the number one leadership program in the country. It's not just an introduction to the military; it's almost an introduction on how to be successful in life. So many of our cadets have gone on to other things, whether it's to senior ranks in the military or as CEOs in other things, and they've spoken about the cadet leadership program. That's what these investments are about; making sure we continue to support our cadet program. We do need to look at some of the adjustments that were made in the past and how we can improve upon things.

One of the focuses that I still need to do a little more work on is how to make summer training camps more accessible to more cadets, where not everybody gets to go. In some parts of Canada a higher percentage from the various units end up going but in other cases there are not. I'm looking into that. I don't have the full information on that. That's one thing I want to improve. When you bring in cadets from all across Canada, or least the regions, they have a tremendous impact on training with one another, and I want to continue that.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

The main estimates 2018-19 include a request for an increase of $12 million over what was in the main estimates 2017-18, in terms of grants and contributions from the Department of National Defence.

Why are you asking for an increase of $26.9 million to fund the North Atlantic Treaty Organization contribution program, with respect to the NATO military budget? In the main estimates 2017-18, the funding was $77,992,408, which has increased to $104,907,000 in the main estimates 2018-2019.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm going to have our CFO answer that question.

In terms of NATO the contributions we have made in personnel, in our contribution to Latvia, our frigates in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea are a persistent presence with air policing as well. In my last NATO defence ministerial meeting, I was very proud to announce that we were returning to the AWACS program, which the previous government had abruptly pulled us out of. This is about showing greater unity. Canada has always played a leadership role. We were one of the founding members on this. Our contributions, not only financial, but also in personnel, are significant. I can assure you this is welcomed by so many of our partners, especially when I met with the Secretary-General, whom I got to host at NORAD headquarters. We demonstrated to them that while Canada is making great contributions to NATO, we also have other responsibilities, especially to North America when it comes to NORAD, and also to the Asia-Pacific.

For more detail, I'd like to pass it over to the CFO.

[Claude Rochette, Assistant Deputy Minister (Finance) and Chief Financial Officer, Department of National Defence]

Thank you very much for your question.

We have three budgets for NATO. In total, we spend about $140 million per year on NATO.

Each year, we work with NATO, which has a formula it uses for each of the budgets: infrastructure, personnel, and other expenses. We see variations from year to year. These variations depend on what NATO decides to do in the following year. For example, if there is an increase in expenditures for certain operations this year, we will have to transfer funds in response. It is based on the formula that NATO uses.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Of all the ongoing defence procurement projects, the Canadian surface combatant project is the most expensive. The Department of National Defence estimates that it will cost between $56 billion and $60 billion to acquire those warships.

What is the current state of the Canadian surface combatant project? What milestones does the Department of National Defence plan to achieve in this fiscal year?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

A lot of great work has been done on the Canadian surface combatant, but more important is how we have been working with Minister Qualtrough on this and how we can speed up the process. We've taken decisions very early on in our tenure to speed up the process on the selection. That is where we're at right now. We're looking at a decision to be made in the not-so-distant future.

This is a program that we can be extremely proud of. One thing I also want to stress is the fact that when it comes to surface combatants themselves, we kind of look at the actual ship, but the real work is going to be done on the integration of the systems inside. This is where it's a great benefit for our Canadian defence industry, building a system that's going to meet the needs of the future. If I had more time, I would love to talk more about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Minister.

It's nice to see you this morning, Mr. Gerretsen. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's nice to see you, too.

Minister, you might recall, when you've come before the committee, I've focused a lot of my questions on military personnel and, in particular, their families and how we support them. Because I come from a riding that has a military base, I have a great appreciation for a lot of the services and programs that exist, not just for our men and women who are wearing the uniform, but their families who are supporting them, and the supports that they need. I'm wondering if you can provide us with some information on the positive work or impacts on military families and communities across Canada, particularly as it relates to funding programs and service expansions to support military members and their families.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm glad you raised this, because this is one focus we wanted to bring significant light on. I think we all know that, regardless of what profession that you have, when you know that your family is well looked after, you're going to be able to perform well at work. When you look at the challenges that our Canadian Armed Forces members have, whether it's training or in operations, this point is even more poignant.

In terms of the investment that we're making into the military family resource centres—a hub that caters to the people who are living on base—we've made some significant improvements on that. In fact, I was able to visit the MFRC where they have day care in Winnipeg. I was able to go early on, before some investments were made and, in addition, afterwards. I was happy to see base commanders and the leadership having more flexibility to be able to make the adjustments for the people on the ground. One example that hit me hard was one person said, “It's great that you have day care, but I'm military police. I'm a single mom, and I do night shift.” I just turned to the base commander and said that they should have the flexibility to be able to make those decisions, and they have. It's nice to be able to give the resources to people to adjust to their needs.

Our families have to move constantly. We're making some changes to where we can make the moves easier. We're going to make some additional changes. The longer-term changes are going to take about a year, but we've gone ahead and gotten approval. We've hit the 10 biggest dis-satisfiers on relocation. That has a significant impact for folks.

I'm just going to pass it over the vice admiral to be able to talk about some of those changes.

[Rear-Admiral D.C. Hawco, Acting Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence]

Thanks, Minister. I would start by building on the minister's point. There are about 12,000 relocations per year in the Canadian Armed Forces. A lot of those are related to people joining. A number of those are related to people who are going on career courses that are of protracted duration. A number of those are rotating positions abroad to NATO and NORAD positions, those operational headquarters, etc. Amongst those 12,000 relocations, we have a consistent evaluation metric in our military personnel command of how it's going, what the costs are. We've noted that there's a modest trend of increase in the overall expenses related to that.

As we've been monitoring, we've recognized very quickly the dissatisfaction with a number of aspects of the current Brookfield BGRS contract: things related to the relocation card, which was widely reported on, and we understood that impact immediately. Within a number of days of getting those kinds of indications, we shifted over to direct fund transfers to individuals. We've augmented the ability of members to get direct access to clerks and staff on the departmental side to address that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That's great. Thank you.

I only have a few seconds left, but I did just want to use the opportunity to say that in Kingston, at CFB Kingston in particular, the military resource centre that exists there is a great asset for the community, in terms of its ability to help connect military communities with our non-military community. What we have seen as a massive success is when we can get our military personnel participating and living and engaging in the community, being coaches of basketball teams, being involved. That really not only helps the individual families but also helps the non-military folks really gain a great appreciation for the work that the military is doing, a greater appreciation for how the members contribute to a community. I really hope that, as we move forward, we can continue to focus on strengthening those supports.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Very quickly on that, I was just in Kingston for the RMC convocation, and I saw just that. Before that, I was in Borden where I saw a great connection with the community.

Regardless of which base I go to, when I talk to the base commander or the senior leadership, I always ask what the relationship is with the community. It is absolutely essential to have a good relationship, but more importantly, to see that the integration is extremely important. I usually like to meet with the councillors or the mayors to see what that co-operation is.

It means our military families are going to be better supported with a better relationship. I'm very proud of the work that our leadership is doing on bases.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

MP Yurdiga.