National Defence Committee on Oct. 14th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Mrs. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I should note that, despite the wishes and the desire on the part of the minister to be there whenever he can at our committee, for the last several times that we have had to vote on the main estimates, he has not made himself available until the vote was already deemed agreed upon in committee and passed without our ever having heard from him. That is my concern about taking Mr. Bezan's motion off the table at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

I don't think there is any.... If we want to make it a priority motion and we send three priority motions to the steering committee, knowing they have to get done in the next two to three weeks, I think that is something that could respect the spirit of what people are trying to achieve here. If that's the case, I don't think that we necessarily have to have Mr. Bezan withdraw his motion. Other people may want to put their motions forward, and we'll send them all to the steering committee.

Mr. Bagnell, you are next, followed by Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I just want to get some clarification. I understand that Anita is proposing two of Mr. Garrison's motions and Mr. Bezan's motion, and that Mr. Bezan's motion would occur when the minister is available sometime in those first three meetings.

I want to clarify with Mr. Bezan. Does your motion say that the very first meeting is the only one the minister would be at?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

No, the only clarification on ours is that it has to happen before November 4.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Sorry, on your motion....

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

That's what the motion reads. I will circulate it.

Is it possible, Madam Chair, for our clerk to put the motion on a shared screen so that anybody who doesn't have it in front of them, even if the motion has been previously circulated, can see it?

[The Clerk]

It's a tricky proposition. The difficulty is that it makes for bad TV, and it may not be legible to viewers at home.

The motions have been distributed previous to the meeting, so everybody should have copies of them, and they are available in the committee's binder on the Source website for all members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

All right.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Several people would like to present a motion today, myself included. I have spoken to members from various parties and I believe that an amendment to my motion will be proposed. Since many of us have a motion to present, logically, we should introduce all of them today and then let the subcommittee set its priorities.

I do not know how my honourable colleagues feel about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Ms. Vandenbeld.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I was going to suggest a potential friendly amendment where Mr. Bezan.... We could suggest that, in the first three meetings, the chair look at having Ms. Jacqueline O'Neill, the minister on the estimates, and a briefing by officials on the COVID response of CAF, and then let all other motions stand for the steering committee.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe has suggested that all motions stand. I think that is okay too, but the concern would be if the steering committee doesn't get to meet immediately, as we do want to have something for next week.

Instead of tabling everything, Mr. Bezan, would you agree that the chair be advised to have those three as the first meetings, or would you like to proceed? I think we've all agreed on this; it's just a procedural thing now. I think we all know what we'd like to do in the beginning. I think the chair would have to check the availability of all of them, including Jacqueline O'Neill.

My suggestion would be a friendly amendment that the chair start with those three meetings and then all other motions stand until such time as the steering committee gets to meet to discuss.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Madam Chair, may I?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Go ahead, Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

There's no such thing as a friendly amendment. I've looked for it in the latest edition of O'Brien and Bosc, as well as in the Standing Orders.

I say, let's deal with this motion. It doesn't tie the hands of our chair in organizing work beyond November 4. I think it's quite straightforward to find the time in those first three meetings during the month of October to get this to happen. Then I have no problem if we want to do more of an omnibus motion listing the three notices of the motions that we want to deal with in the first three meetings, including the ambassador for women, Jacqueline O'Neill. I think that would be acceptable.

So let's deal with this motion and move on and get the rest of the work done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

We have a motion on the floor about having the minister come for estimates before November 4. Also, someone else brought up a point that maybe not everyone has submitted all their motions. Some people may not have come prepared to bring a motion to the floor today. Maybe we should open that up as well later on.

I think we can go ahead and vote on having the minister come for the estimates. Does anyone else want to weigh in on that?

Mr. Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I wanted to weigh in on Mr. Bezan's motion in regard to the minister coming to committee on the main estimates. I note that in his motion he says it will be for no fewer than two hours.

I have a couple of points. One is that I don't know if the minister is going to be available for the full two hours on the dates we can meet, so I don't know if this is something we can secure or not. I just don't know. I'm new to federal office and how it works here, but that's the question I wanted to put out there. Maybe that's a question for the chair or for the clerk on how we deal with that.

The second thing I'll put out is that I know the minister has been very available to this committee, both when we were sitting in the spring and in the winter and also in the past. I feel that if we had to stick to one hour, I'd be comfortable with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Is there anyone else?

I think at this time we can have a vote on Mr. Bezan's—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I have a point of order.

Was Mr. Baker suggesting an amendment to Mr. Bezan's motion? No? Okay. Very good.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

All right. We can have a vote on Mr. Bezan's motion to have the minister come for two hours to talk about the main estimates before November 4. Do I have the major parts of that correctly? Okay.

Is there any further debate on this motion?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you.

We have Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, then Ms. Vandenbeld and then Mr. Garrison.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I, too, would like to introduce a motion to the committee. You should normally have received it in the digital binder. It reads as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study on the effects of the aging of the CF-18 fleet and the operational capacity of the Canadian Armed Forces; that, as part of this study, the Committee examine the impacts of the repeated delays in procuring new aircraft, the growing workload involved in maintaining the current aircraft and the availability of the personnel to carry out these operations, among other issues; that, in so doing, the Committee assess the options for improving the operational process of replacing the CF-18, including by engaging the services of Quebec's aerospace industry; and that the Committee report its findings and recommendations to the House.

I believe that there will be an amendment and that we will all agree on it.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Is it possible to move that amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Is there debate on this motion?

Ms. Vandenbeld.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

No, it's just a point of clarification. Is Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe moving his motion or tabling his motion right now? I think we discussed that we would table all motions, except for the first few meetings. It's just to clarify.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I am presenting this motion. That is what I had intended to do.