Evidence of meeting #13 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was suicide.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
You also talked about mental health first aid. You were probably still with the forces when they introduced the Road to Mental Readiness, especially for anyone who was deploying. Now all troops, of course, are getting that training.
Is mental health first aid part of that program, or is it something that still needs to be developed in greater consultation with medical professionals?
12:55 p.m.
As an Individual
It needs to be developed much more. There are different levels of mental health first aid. It comes in a one-day session or a multi-day session. It's learning how to recognize certain disorders or behaviours, and then how to deal with that individual to get them off the ledge or simply to guide them in the right direction. It's about how to be more empathetic.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
How about extending that training to families as well? All too often, especially with the Road to Mental Readiness program, it's about the soldier and not about the family, and of course it's the family that can best identify changes in behaviour. If we want to have measurement drive behaviour, let's start bringing the families more into this as well, and not just those who are currently serving.
12:55 p.m.
As an Individual
The members need to get it, but families need to be aware of it. First, they need to be able to recognize it and help the member, the partner or the dad. Second, they need direction on where to direct them or who to call when a member needs help that the family can't provide or doesn't have the luxury of time to handle.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Chauhan, first of all, I would like to express my most sincere condolences for the death of your brother. Your presence here today proves how strong and courageous you are, as are Ms. Cyr and Ms. Archambault.
As this is my last turn, I would like to give each of you 45 seconds to answer this question: if you had a message for the members of the forces listening to your story today, what would it be?
My dear witnesses, you have 45 seconds each. Thank you again for joining us to share your stories.
12:55 p.m.
Social Service Worker, Laurentian Integrated Health and Social Services Centre, As an Individual
Do not be ashamed of seeking help, because once you are in the system, you still get something good out of it. It needs to be demystified and we need to stop ostracizing people who dare to seek help on bended knee, as they say. I think that needs to be emphasized and families need to be involved in the process so that they can help you detect and solve problems before they become too big. That's how we can save lives.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Ms. Archambault.
Ms. Cyr, the floor is yours.
12:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I would agree. You really need to get the help you need and not be ashamed of it. You have to be brave and go bang on some doors. If you're in Quebec City, or if you come to Quebec City, you can visit our café. You can also access the website of the Café Félin Ma Langue Aux Chats, and write to us privately. We will try to give you the help you need and direct you to where you can find help. You must never give up.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you so much, Ms. Cyr.
Mr. Chauhan, the floor is yours.
12:55 p.m.
As an Individual
It's to get the leaders to ensure their organizations recognize that these challenges exist, and to stop the stigma and get the platoon commanders, troop commanders, company commanders and squadron commanders to talk with their troops and be more open about these challenges.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you very much, you have been wonderful, and I applaud all three of you once again for your great courage.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe went in the same direction I wanted to go here at the end.
I would like to ask something much more specific of each of the three witnesses. If there were one specific thing that would be your highest priority—not an attitudinal thing but a change in process or procedure—from the experience you've had that you would like us to recommend to the government, what would that be?
We'll go in the order of the testimony.
1 p.m.
Social Service Worker, Laurentian Integrated Health and Social Services Centre, As an Individual
I think it would be the continuum of services between the end of military life and the transition to civilian life. For us, that was the last straw in terms of my husband's suicide attempt. Something in the continuum is really missing. There is a grey area that is not being addressed and I think that's where the focus should be.
1 p.m.
As an Individual
We have to make the wisest choice for where we're going to direct our resources to get the best results. The strategy and action plan for suicide that VAC and DND have produced lists a lot of good ideas but no tangible metrics.
If we look at the Israel Defense Forces and what they've done—because whatever they've done hasn't just decreased suicide—there's obviously been some sort of greater recognition and awareness of mental health to be able to achieve that result.
1 p.m.
As an Individual
I agree. We need help when we come out of the forces. Someone has to be there to support us and not leave us to our own devices.
I would also recommend that the commanders strictly follow the mandatory programs that are presented every year. Disciplinary action must also be taken in cases of harassment. In my case, the individual who harassed me was a master warrant officer and now he is a chief warrant officer. Promotions like that should not happen because it shows others that there is no problem, that they can psychologically harass other people and that they will still be promoted. This should not happen. These people should be demoted and perhaps even removed from the Canadian Armed Forces.
We do not receive enough support.
1 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, once again, to all three witnesses.
I would ask the chair whether we can ask our analysts to have a look at the record of the Israel Defense Forces in reducing suicides, and to provide that information to members.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
Absolutely, Mr. Garrison, we will do that.
Mr. Bezan, there are still a couple of minutes if you have one more question to ask.
1 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First of all, I want to thank all of our witnesses for their service to this nation, both as veterans as well as military family members. This is a testament to the sacrifice that each and every one of you had to pay for that service.
Madame Cyr, I wanted to come back to you on pet therapy. Could you address how important this issue is? You said that you ran into some difficulties with programming around setting up your cat café.
Madame Archambault, could you talk about whether or not military family resource centres provided you with the help you needed, or at least directed you toward the appropriate resources, so that you could get that counselling, as well as a better way to deal with your husband's PTSD?
1 p.m.
As an Individual
As I explained to you earlier, pet therapy is really the third type of therapy for which I paid. In 2015, when the harassment was at its peak, a small dog, a Yorkshire Terrier, came into my life. I thank him every day for saving my life. My dog follows me everywhere. He allows me to go shopping and to go on a few outings.
Opening a café with cats was a great opportunity. It is the only café where there is one dog among 14 cats. Pet therapy has allowed us to honour our friends who lost their fight to suicide. For me, it was very important to think of my friends who lost their fight by taking their own lives or when fighting in Afghanistan. They did not know how to, or were not able to, find the help they needed when they needed it, and then found that there was no other way out.
In my opinion, pet therapy should be a part of everyone's life. Everyone should have a pet therapy café in their community. We are also giving kids with autism the opportunity to do internships by working with us. We also give veterans who are in transition the opportunity to volunteer. Through pet therapy, we are very non-judgmental. In our café, you can hold a cat in your arms and cry if you need to. The important thing is to be who you really are and to let your emotions out. That is what we stand for. You can also sit in a corner with your coffee, panini, soup or dessert.
The atmosphere we have created in our café is sort of like a cottage. We don't just have tables, like in a regular café. We also have loveseats, rocking chairs and low tables with cushions. When you enter our café, you take off your shoes to feel at home. Right away, we destabilize you so that you can be even more yourself, in contact with yourself. In our café, the clocks always indicate 11:11. Why is that? It's very important to us. On November 11 at 11 o'clock we have to observe a minute of silence to honour the people who fought for us. So in our café you can see two clocks that always show 11:11.
There is also a bright star. It reminds us that there is a star shining for us in the sky. Someone is there for us, be it our brothers who lost their fight or members of our family. It can also symbolize the small light that people need to carry on. That's what we want to offer in our coffee shop. People love the fact that our cats are named after our friends. They have a history. They are purebred cats, which is not the case elsewhere. It's good to rescue cats, but it's hard to do pet therapy properly with cats that come from a shelter. We saved one cat, whose name is Karine. Karine suffers a bit from post-traumatic stress disorder. She has been through some difficult things and has an anxious side. I like to make the connection between her and us. We can identify with her. We can see in her what we are feeling ourselves. When people come to our café, they can make a connection between the cats and their own emotions.
We try to provide a little more peace, support and freedom to the people who come to our café. We are known in many parts of the world, which makes us happy. When it was allowed, we welcomed people from Australia, Brazil and many other places. People came to the café because it was a really unusual concept. There are a lot of cafés with cats, but we are proud to say that our concept, our mission and what we do, is really unique. It's pet therapy.
However, since our café is considered a restaurant, we are not allowed to apply for the necessary funds from the government, either for mental health or anything else, because we have not yet created a foundation or a non-profit organization. It's a little frustrating. Because our café is considered a restaurant, we have to support ourselves. So my pension income is invested in my café, in my therapy and in the therapy of my clients.
1:05 p.m.
As an Individual
No, that's okay.
That's the goal, but we don't have the help we need. For example, the Canadian Forces could say that some veterans have created something for the community and that they're going to help us, but unfortunately we don't have that support. So if you are able to do something, please do.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
Thank you very much.
Once again, thank you to all the witnesses for having the courage to share their stories with us today. Their testimony is very important. I think it's an example of leadership and altruism that the world could well follow.
I think all of us were touched by your words, and it just strengthened our commitment to make a difference. That's what you have done here today. You have made a difference, and you will make differences in people's lives as we go forward.
Thank you, everyone.
I have a final note to the committee. Friday's meeting will be a steering committee meeting only, to discuss the scope of the military justice study that we're working towards right now.
With that, I thank all of our witnesses and the committee for the excellent questions and for everything that we've learned today. I wish you all the very best. Please, take good care.
The meeting is adjourned.