National Defence Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2021

Evidence of meeting #16 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was allegations.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Addressing Sexual Misconduct Issues in the Canadian Armed Forces, Including the Allegations Against Former Chief of the Defence Staff Jonathan Vance

MPs speaking

Karen McCrimmon

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe

Also speaking

Denise Preston Executive Director, Sexual Misconduct Response Centre, Department of National Defence

Andrew Atherton Director General of Professional Military Conduct, Department of National Defence

Colonel Retired) Michel Drapeau (Professor, University of Ottawa, Faculty of Common Law, As an Individual

Marie Deschamps Former Justice, Supreme Court of Canada, As an Individual

Maya Eichler Associate Professor in political studies and women’s studies/Canada Research Chair in Social Innovation and Community Engagement, As an Individual

Alan Okros As an Individual

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon

Go ahead, Mr. Bagnell.

February 22nd, 2021 / 1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Madam Chair, I'm just wondering if we're setting a precedent with this motion, if the members of the armed forces won't feel they can go in confidence to the ombudsman on future issues, on any issue. This seems to be the one place they can go that's independent, where conversations are private. Will they feel that they cannot do this now that a parliamentary committee can just summon the ombudsman at any time and their information is not confidential anymore?

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

May I answer that, unless one of the other members wants to dive in here, Madam Chair?

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon

Yes. Go ahead, Mr. Bezan.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

The Canadian Armed Forces ombudsman is responsible to appear before the committee and report from time to time. We never ask him to disclose confidential issues that they deal with on behalf of the members of the Canadian Armed Forces. As Colonel Drapeau said in his testimony earlier today, and Mr. Garrison just mentioned, the ombudsman isn't independent because he has to answer to the minister. He does have the chain of command that currently is obstructing his ability, or her ability, to do their job.

Madam Chair, I'd just say back to Mr. Bagnell that this is not about getting into the details of the allegations because we don't want to taint the investigation. I think justice needs to be served here for all parties in question. Let's actually have a serious discussion with Mr. Walbourne over the sequence of events and what he had as discussions with the minister relating to the allegations, but not the details of those allegations.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon

Are there any other further points that people would like to bring up at this time?

Let's see if we can get this through by unanimous consent.

Is there unanimous consent?

1:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon

I'm sorry, because we're doing this virtually, does anyone not give their consent to this motion? No.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

This has been passed by unanimous consent. Thank you very much. You made that easy.

We're a little bit late, so I'm going to adjourn the meeting.