Evidence of meeting #22 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ombudsman.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
2:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I want to return to where I left off in the last round with Ms. Sherman on the question of national security.
If you, in the course of your job, come across information you believe might compromise national security for any of the GIC appointees, who would you report that to?
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
I think there are a couple of elements to that. You've positioned it as if I came across it. In that context, if I did come across specific information that related to a Governor in Council appointee, that raised those kinds of concerns, I would speak with the Clerk in terms of his responsibility with me for managing the conduct of GIC appointees, and the determination of next steps to be taken would be based on that conversation.
2:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
You would not go directly to the national security adviser.
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
I think that would depend on the situation, the context and the specifics. It may be something that we would speak about together with the Clerk. It would really depend on the specific situation.
2:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
In this specific case, was there or was there not a conversation with the national security adviser by either you or the Clerk?
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
I can only speak for myself in that respect and I did not speak with the national security adviser.
I want to clarify that I didn't have specific information. The ombudsman had that specific information—about an allegation.
2:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Again, that impugns the integrity of the military ombudsman who did say there was a credible complaint, but we've already covered that ground—
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
May I respond to that? I'm sorry, but you've said that, and I do not, Madam Chair, want to be seen to be impugning...the former ombudsman. I was respecting the fact that he was respecting the confidentiality of the process, the complainant and his office. My only point is that he was not in a position, in his view, to provide me with information, so I did not leave that conversation with information, with any documentation or specifics that would have enabled further action at that time.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.
Ms. Sherman, I'm curious. In your conversations or dealings with the PMO, did you have any exchanges, by either email or conversation, with Katie Telford on this subject?
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
I am not in a position, I think, to speak specifically about individual conversations. My conversations were with the Clerk.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
I'm going to ask you this—that no, you had no conversations with Katie Telford.
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
That would be correct.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
Did you have any email exchanges or conversations with Elder Marques on this subject?
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
Again, that would be information that is specific and I'm not in a position to answer that based on the protection of personal information.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
We're just trying to find out who knew what and when they knew it.
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
I understand.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
You know how the decisions are made there.
Did you have any emails, exchanges or conversations with Zita Astravas on this subject?
2:20 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
Again, you have seen the emails that did take place in terms of hearing about the allegations and—
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
2:25 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
Yes.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
—and who are part of the decision-making process, so we're just trying to get to the bottom of this. I think if you talked to these people you can say yes or no. Yes, you talked to them or no, you didn't talk to them.
2:25 p.m.
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
I think you have seen that I did speak with individuals from the minister's office and I have confirmed that I did speak with individuals in the Prime Minister's Office.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
We talked the last time on February 19 and we talked a little bit about General Vance's $50,000 pay raise. I'd like to ask a few questions about that.
Can you tell us who initiated the process to give the general a raise?
