Evidence of meeting #28 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was misconduct.
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3:20 p.m.
Conservative
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
All right. Come on now. It's not a normal procedure. It's not a normal motion for a suspension to come from the floor, right? We're giving them a headache. Listen, I think this is something that people will want to clearly understand before we go down this road, myself included.
We all know what was scheduled on Monday. Monday was scheduled to be draft reports on mental health, CAF and COVID-19. This decision will mean that we will not be doing those reports. My understanding—and I want to make sure that everyone's clear—is that it means we will not being doing those draft reports on Monday. Instead, we will be doing this particular motion. This could impact...over the long term. I think those reports are very important to get out, and if we're going to make that decision, then everybody should understand completely what the decision is. That's why I'm trying to get some kind of clarity here, okay?
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Pardon me, Madam Chair, if I may speak.
We spent almost the two hours of this meeting discussing the recommendations in the report that will be generated from the study we are talking about today. Perhaps we can reallocate the time that we already spent today so that we will stay on our eventual timeline.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
You know, Madam Gallant, everyone has a right to participate in the debate. Everybody does. You might not like what they have to say, but debate is about people putting opposite points of view on the table. That, I think, is where we are now. There are different points of view.
Sometimes, I think debate is really critical and important, but if we're going to have an impact on our ability to actually produce reports, then I think people, when they're making decisions and are going to do a vote, need to understand completely what they are voting for or against. That's what I'm trying to get, that level of clarity.
All right. The clerk just told me that it won't be considered a substantive motion because there's already a motion on the floor. Our choices are to carry on the debate or to adjourn. Unfortunately, that motion is not in order because there's already another motion on the floor. That was the kind of detail we were trying to get, to make sure we understood this.
I'm sorry, Mr. Garrison.
3:20 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Okay, Madam Chair, then I think I need to go back and challenge your decision that we cannot suspend.
I challenge the chair's decision.
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Madam Chair, could we hear from the clerk? I heard what the clerk said to you but I don't think the other members did. I think we might want to hear what the clerk said.
Madam Chair, are we suspended?
3:20 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Okay. My understanding is that there are only three dilatory motions: a motion to adjourn the meeting, a motion to adjourn the debate and a motion to change the order of business. That would mean that if a motion is not dilatory and is substantive, it can't be debated at the same time as a substantive motion, which I believe was your ruling. I heard the clerk say that to you. I'm wondering if the members could hear what I overheard.
My apologies. I'm in the room and they're not, and I don't think it's fair that I heard what the clerk said and they didn't. Essentially, a motion can't be debated when you have a debatable motion on the floor, and there are only three dilatory motions, one of which is to adjourn.
3:25 p.m.
The Clerk
To address the issue, allow me to say the following. The motion that the sitting be suspended can be moved. It can be treated the same way as a motion to adjourn. Then the chair uses their discretion as to when to resume.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
It's not in the books, so it's not a dilatory motion as outlined in the books. We have to make sure that in whatever we're doing, we at least try to follow the intent of things. I get that, so I want to make sure that people clearly understand the decision they are making.
3:30 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Madam Chair, I believe I still have the floor, and having heard now from the clerk that a motion to suspend is in order, I would like to return to that motion. That is what I intended this whole time. I move that the committee now suspend.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
There's another motion on the floor, Mr. Garrison. There's another active motion on the floor.
3:30 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
This is not a substantive motion. We're receiving advice from our parliamentary experts that it is completely in order and is not a substantive motion. I'm therefore challenging your decision if you're saying it's out of order.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
On a point of order, Madam Chair, I want to make sure we know which motion we're dealing with at this point in time. I know there's a challenge to the chair, and I agree with that, but I want to make sure that we're on the same page as to the motion.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
You and me both, Mr. Bezan.
I'm going to suspend. We'll let everybody have a look at this, get advice and read the book, and we'll come back in five minutes.
We're suspended.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
Okay, I think we might have a way forward.
They're still talking about it. It's going further, whether how much in order this is or not, but I am getting the impression that it's the will of the committee to suspend.
Do you want to speak, Mr. Bezan or Mr. Barsalou-Duval, either one of you?
Mr. Garrison, are you good?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Just again for clarity.... You're suspending, and then Monday morning we start off with this debate.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I know, but if you're suspending, the meeting continues on Monday. Is that clear?
3:50 p.m.
A voice
Can it have the intent to continue?
3:50 p.m.
A voice
Okay, yes, but we're going to continue it, though, right?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I'm just asking for clarity, Madam Chair. I'm not putting conditions.... I'm just asking for clarity since you're suggesting that you'll suspend the meeting, which I'm okay with.
However, for clarity purposes, I just want to make sure that if you are suspending, then this meeting continues on Monday morning.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karen McCrimmon
What it does do, Mr. Bezan, is make it clear that the will of the committee is to supersede the work of reviewing those draft reports. That's what you need to understand.