National Defence Committee on April 30th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Okay, make it a quick one.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

If you didn't think this was a sexual misconduct complaint, what kind of complaint did you think it was?

[Katie Telford]

I think you even actually asserted just a moment ago that there are many other types of complaints, so I'm not going to get into speculating on what they could have been, but there are many different types of complaints that can come forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much.

We will move on to Ms. Alleslev, please.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Once again, from March 2 until March 16, who made the decision not to tell the Prime Minister?

[Katie Telford]

Let me just remind you, through the chair, that on March 2, I was learning about this complaint. I was immediately acting and taking it very seriously.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Once you learned about the complaint, you had to make a decision to tell the Prime Minister or not.

Who made the decision?

[Katie Telford]

No. Actually, I would remind you that I didn't learn about the.... I knew nothing about the complaint. I knew there was something, that the ombudsperson said they had a complaint that they apparently couldn't work on and they raised with the minister—

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

When you found out about the complaint, who made the decision not to tell the Prime Minister?

[Katie Telford]

When we found out about the unusual circumstance that the minister found himself in, we immediately took it seriously. We immediately took action with the appropriate people who should follow up on it.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

You took it seriously but did not tell the Prime Minister.

Who made the decision not to tell the Prime Minister?

[Katie Telford]

Madam Chair, on March 2, I learned that the minister was seeking advice—

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Then you knew. Okay, then you knew—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

I'm going to interrupt here.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, the witness isn't being allowed to answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

The interpreters are pulling their hair out, so please, if you ask a question, wait for the answer and then you can ask another question. All right? We're making it very difficult for them.

Go ahead, Madam Alleslev. You can ask your question.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Madam Chair, the witness is not answering the question.

Who made the decision not to tell the Prime Minister of a serious allegation against the chief of the defence staff?

[Katie Telford]

Madam Chair, at the time, what I was wanting to ensure was done to protect the complainant was that the proper next steps were taken. That's what I did immediately, and that's what I took seriously. Then there was no more information to be had, as I've told you, except for the fact that I did get assurance that there was not a safety issue.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Madam Chair, we heard from the Clerk of the Privy Council that there was a memo to the Prime Minister and you discussed whether or not to extend his tenure. Who made the decision not to tell the Prime Minister of the allegations against the chief of the defence staff?

[Katie Telford]

Madam Chair, I'd like to correct that. I believe the member is misinformed, because there was not a note that went to the Prime Minister about extending the tenure of the chief of the defence staff. There actually are not term lengths for the tenure of the chief of the defence staff. He serves at the pleasure of....

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Who made the decision not to tell the Prime Minister—not when he received a pay raise through a Governor in Council, and not when there was a memo to the Prime Minister discussing options for him to be replaced before the next election? On multiple occasions, who made the decision not to tell the Prime Minister about these serious allegations?

[Katie Telford]

I believe, Madam Chair, that the member is actually referring to the performance management system that the Privy Council Office has in place. In a memo to do the performance management system, or a decision note that came directly from the clerk to the Prime Minister, there were discussions, which were not usually in the performance management system.

There were some options around succession planning—

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Madam Chair.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Madam Alleslev, please allow the witness to answer the question.