Evidence of meeting #100 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commercial.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How, if at all, does satellite spoofing impact the Canadian Space Agency's operations?
Director General, Space Utilization, Canadian Space Agency
Taking into consideration that we are more concerned with the peaceful use of space, where we see a lot of spoofing is, for example, the RADARSAT Constellation Mission, which has two payloads. One of them is the automatic identification of ships. This is where very often we see spoofing occurring, but as to how it is dealt with, the Department of National Defence will be better positioned to answer.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
I'm just going to hold your time here for a second.
Can you give the committee an operating definition of what satellite spoofing means?
Director General, Space Utilization, Canadian Space Agency
It's a very wide term and has many aspects. For example, in a case of the automatic identification of ships, it's when a ship's transponder would send misinformation about its location or its purpose or its cargo or other misinformation.
Another very wide area where it is very pertinent is in positioning, navigation and timing systems such as GPS in the United States or Galileo in Europe, where adversary actions can affect the accuracy of signals and provide completely erroneous information for operational purposes.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
We have widespread co-operation with respect to the international space station. Why can't the countries agree on a similar type of agreement when it comes to space landings on the moon? What is it that is preventing an agreement like the international space station from coming forth with respect to the moon?
Director General, Policy, Canadian Space Agency
The co-operation on the international space station is specifically between the partners of the station: Canada, the U.S., Japan, the European Space Agency and Russia. All operations of the station and the participation of these nations in the program are guided by that agreement.
I think we are still, it's fair to say, some years away from nations that want to participate in the peaceful exploration of the moon forming a partnership. It might be something that will come in the future. It might involve the participants that are currently collaborating on the international space station and perhaps beyond that, but at the moment, it is not yet formalized or in place.
Director General, Space Utilization, Canadian Space Agency
If I can add very quickly, we do already have examples of collaboration, such as the Lunar Gateway, which the Canadian Space Agency participates in. That is very similar to what ISS is in low earth orbit, but that will be in lunar orbit. Canada plays a very prominent role in this one.
Liberal
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our guests for spending part of their day with us today. We're very grateful for that.
I want to ask you for a quick update on the Artemis mission and where we are in the timeline and maybe just unpack a little bit what that mission is and what will be happening, if you're in a position to do so.
Director General, Policy, Canadian Space Agency
It's a little bit of a technical question when it comes to unpacking the mission.
Artemis II mission preparations are currently ongoing. Canadian astronaut Jeremy Hansen is scheduled to fly on that mission. He will be the first non-American astronaut to fly around the moon, so it will be a big accomplishment for Canada.
Currently the launch is not expected before September 2025, but you will appreciate, based on the testing and the results from the Artemis I mission, that these timelines are in flex and in the end it will depend on the readiness of the system.
Liberal
Director General, Policy, Canadian Space Agency
That will be the first crewed flight of the Artemis rocket. The first one tested the technical aspects of flying around the moon. This one will have humans in the rocket and will test the procedures that go with the flight.
I would probably not be lying if I said they will fly for about 10 or 11 days around the moon. During that time, they'll evaluate a large number of systems that maintain the life on the rocket, but also technical things related to the flight itself.
Director General, Space Utilization, Canadian Space Agency
If I can add to that, it will fly beyond the moon and will actually be the furthest space foray for human beings.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
That's fascinating. Thank you for that. The mission is really about establishing the way that we're going to be in space in the future. That's wonderful.
I want to switch over now. You've clearly identified that science and knowledge seeking is at the core of what you do. I met recently with a group of astrophysicists at Saint Mary's University in Halifax who are very interested in being involved in what will replace the Hubble telescope and the outward-looking telescopes that survey deep space and don't turn around to look back at Earth for defence and so forth.
In what way does the Canadian Space Agency touch projects like a new outward-looking space telescope?
Director General, Policy, Canadian Space Agency
The Canadian Space Agency currently participates in the James Webb telescope with international partners, and we maintain expert capacity in the agency, such as staff who work on astronomy and planetary science missions.
We participate in a number of ongoing missions, but going forward we're exploring potential partnerships with other nations, including on some of the ideas that come currently from the Canadian astronomy community.
Usually our science efforts are consulted on with the scientific community across Canada, regardless of the domain of study, and our search for potential future opportunities is in line with the priorities of the community.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
Thank you.
As I understand it, both Hubble and James Webb are pretty much ready to be retired and replacements are needed. Maybe Hubble is already retired—I'm not sure—and James Webb also has some constraints.
I'm not a scientist of this nature, but whether it's spectrum constraints or infrared constraints, I know there's a full spectrum of observations not available through James Webb. However, its replacement might be able to fill in those missing gaps in observation.
I'm trying to figure out what Canada's role in this international partnership is and whether the role really lands with the Canadian Space Agency so that we can support it effectively.
Director General, Policy, Canadian Space Agency
The Canadian Space Agency contributed instruments towards that mission. The technical aspect of it is also outside of my domain, so I wouldn't be able to speak to exactly what the instruments do. One of them helps with fine guiding and navigation, and the other one has a scientific purpose. Canada actually is one of the key partners in the James Webb space telescope mission.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
Okay. Thank you very much.
Although we are the national defence committee, we're not looking only at the role of space in defence; we're also looking at space observation and its importance. Swivelling that sort of imaginary telescope back to earth, what role does the Canadian Space Agency have in environmental observation and that kind of thing? What do we learn from the space agency to help us manage the planet?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Unfortunately, Mr. Fillmore was a little slow on the swivel, so he ran out of time.
Ms. Normandin, you have six minutes.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Ms. Djukic and Mr. Kroupnik, thank you for joining us.
Ms. Djukic, you mentioned the issue of dual use in your opening remarks. I'd like to know whether having to collaborate with National Defence on occasion can have certain drawbacks. For example, we know that defence procurement is very slow: Could this have an impact on some of your programs, particularly by causing delays because there are more regulations to follow?
I'd like you to tell us about your relationship with National Defence and whether it creates any constraints.
Director General, Space Utilization, Canadian Space Agency
Thank you very much for that highly relevant question.
I would like to mention that we collaborate and coordinate requirements with the Department of National Defence as well as with a large number of other government departments to harmonize needs on behalf of the Government of Canada. However, we have a completely independent procurement group, and we usually acquire our assets independently.
Of course, we always coordinate and use an interdepartmental governance mechanism for decision-making. However, I would say that we have not seen the procurement impediments you were alluding to in past procurements.