National Defence Committee on Sept. 24th, 2024

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Now, the Prime Minister said, at the NATO summit, that Canada will hit its minimum 2% spending by 2032, or within eight years, and they're claiming cabinet confidence to refuse to provide a plan. Are you confident in that estimate, or is it just a number they made up to placate our allies' frustration over our lack of contribution?

[Christyn Cianfarani]

That's not a plan. That's a press release.

A plan would be a budget rollout, year over year, of funding for us to be able to get to 2% of GDP. From an industrial perspective, we would see a matching investment plan, which would show the assets and the money profiled out in order to achieve 2% of GDP.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Gallant.

Mr. Powlowski, you have the final three minutes.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Supporting Ukraine and its war against Russia, I think, aligns with our strategic interests. Certainly, one of the biggest challenges facing Ukraine at the moment is ammunition and the global shortage of 155-millimetre artillery shells. The update mentions that “Canada will seek to accelerate the establishment of new artillery ammunition production capacity in Canada”.

I think we did give some money in March, to IMT Defence and General Dynamics, to look at expanding manufacturing. What are we doing to expand manufacturing of artillery shells and ammunition and, specifically, 155-millimetre artillery shells?

[Christyn Cianfarani]

Currently, as I understand it, between the munitions supply program and the government contracting offices, there is a back-and-forth conversation with what the next generation of round would look like and how much Canada would be willing to purchase itself, because obviously it needs to purchase it and then either donate it or have it for what we need for our own stocks.

That conversation has been ongoing prior to the release of the DPU. The sense of urgency we would expect in making investments in this particular area, moving it forward and then contracting out to industry is just not there in the way we're certainly seeing it in other nations. At this point, the Americans have made more investments in 155 and propellant in Canada than Canada has made in it. Next week, I will be at IMT for the opening of their new line for the Americans.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I guess, as the last question.... I was looking into the production of 155-millimetre artillery shells. Do I have it totally screwed up? How much does it cost to make one? How much do they sell for? I figured out that it's about $7,000 per shell, which seems incredible, given the number of shells that are being used. Is that an accurate figure?

[Christyn Cianfarani]

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't done the math. All I look at is that I think there are about 6,000 rounds per day and 250,000 rounds per month being used by Ukraine—something along those lines. The numbers are astronomical.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Powlowski.

Unfortunately, I have to gavel this meeting to a close. I appreciate, as does the committee, your presence here and your patience. Your contribution to our review of the DPU is most welcome. The more questions we ask, the more questions we have. It seems to be almost endless in this thing. Again, thank you.

Colleagues, we'll meet again on Thursday morning. We have the new chief of the defence staff and the new vice-chief of the defence staff for the first hour. For the second hour, we have Representative Tseng from the Taiwanese office, and we'll go from there.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.