Evidence of meeting #115 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was china.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dean Allison Conservative Niagara West, ON
My question is in terms of the Chinese defence sector. Once again, AI is playing a bigger role in every sector, but certainly in defence.... I'd love to know what your thoughts are in terms of AI and the Chinese defence sector in terms of how that's progressing.
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
You must understand that even the mature node semiconductors, the chips, can be very widely applied in all kinds of applications, including missiles. It is not that China cannot develop its very advanced missiles or weapons without the TSMC helping it. It can do that. As a matter of fact, it's also been reported that Russia's only lifeline to sustain the war in Ukraine is China—that is, the semiconductors made by China. We think that the way to deter China is to stop sending semiconductors to China. We should do that, especially with the more advanced chips. The TSMC and Taiwan are co-operating with like-minded countries led by the United States, but doing that is not everything. China has the capability to make its own missiles with its own chips.
Conservative
Dean Allison Conservative Niagara West, ON
Thank you.
You mentioned foreign interference from China. We're experiencing that here in Canada, as well, at many levels. Politically, we know that there are a number of members of Parliament, but it's also through the technology, whether it's university...and obviously through industry as well. Do you face the same types of challenges in Taiwan?
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
The nature of the foreign interference from China is the same. I think it's all concerning our national security. The pattern may be very different, because in Taiwan we are facing Chinese foreign intervention on a daily basis. It doesn't happen only during the election time. It doesn't happen necessarily only during war time. Now, people will probably question whether now is peace time, because there are many things happening now. Even now, there is a lot of Chinese disinformation in Taiwan. They have a set of policies to spread disinformation in order to instigate what we call cognitive warfare. This was particularly obvious during the presidential election in January this year. There are so many examples. I don't think I need to mention them one by one, but let me assure you that this is a very urgent and important matter that we face in Taiwan.
Conservative
Dean Allison Conservative Niagara West, ON
I have only a minute left, and I know that others will be addressing this question.
How concerned are you about an imminent attack from China? I mean, there have been a lot of issues. You mentioned that, and you list all kinds of them. What would that do to your chip manufacturing industry?
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
Honestly, I don't think there is an imminent threat of war brewing. There is a difference between a long-term preparation for a war to break out, which is clearly written in their political report in the party congress, and a military drill. Military drills are meant to intimidate Taiwan, to intimidate our people. Many people in Taiwan wouldn't seem to be very much; nobody in Taiwan would panic when there is a military exercise, because they intend only to intimidate. If there is a hostile intention discerned in their military exercise, our response would be different. The response from the United States and Japan—the like-minded countries—would be different. I think there is no imminent threat, but there is an intention there, and they are preparing for it—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Unfortunately, we'll have to leave the answer there.
Thank you, Mr. Allison.
Ms. Lapointe, you have six minutes.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you.
Hello, Your Excellency. I'm a rather new member to the committee, so I wasn't present when you appeared before this committee in September 2023.
I have reviewed the previous testimony from last year, when you said the following:
No region in the world is exempt from the geopolitical complexities we face today. What is happening in the Indo-Pacific is unavoidably related to what is taking place in other parts of the world and vice versa, notably in Ukraine, central Asia, Africa and the Middle East.
You went on to say:
The most unnerving geopolitical risks today are to be found in either the Russia-Ukraine war, the U.S.-China rivalry or the North Korean aggression and tension in the Taiwan Strait.
In your opinion, is the situation in the Indo-Pacific region different today? If so, in what ways is it different?
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
Thank you very much for your question, and thank you for referring back to what I said last year.
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
I think if there is a difference, it can be seen as an incremental escalation of the threat. In terms of China, there is also one difference, very clearly, from what it was last year. That is the internal difficulties that China is facing today. By that I'm referring not only to economic difficulty, because economic difficulty can quickly switch to fiscal difficulty and social problems, and then to political problems in China. It can escalate very quickly, and that can affect their external behaviour.
I think we need to pay more attention to what's happening in the Indo-Pacific. I think that is exactly what many of the like-minded countries are doing now. I don't know if you have noticed, but in the past 24 hours, Japan, New Zealand and Australia have all sent their naval ships to transit through the Taiwan Strait. This is the first time we've seen that happen. It is the first time New Zealand has sent a naval ship to the Taiwan Strait. You may be surprised that this is also the first time Japan has done this on its own.
We know that we have the support of the world, because the situation there has been the focus of global attention, but we still have much more to do. We cannot afford to be complacent. We must be aware of that.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Can you tell us what the current situation is with China's “grey zone” tactics toward Taiwan? Has there been an escalation in frequency? From your perspective, what are the most concerning tactics they employ?
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
The grey zone tactics, by definition, are actually a combination of all kinds of military or non-military threats that they can impose, in this case on Taiwan. It's a grey zone, so it's very difficult to see or regard them as war behaviour. This constrains the other foreign countries from reacting. If it's war behaviour, then perhaps international condemnation and sanctions would come immediately. China is trying to avoid that.
Again, Taiwan's situation is so unique. It's different from any other country's in terms of what you perceive as Chinese grey zone tactics. In Taiwan the grey zone tactics are a combination of their disinformation campaign, cyber-attacks and cognitive warfare. They create all kinds of scenarios to confuse society and confuse voters in order to nurture a candidate of their liking.
It's things like that. It's not what NSICOP has found out in Canada. It's one or two notches higher in Taiwan.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
How does Taiwan navigate the increasing geopolitical competition between the U.S. and China in the Indo-Pacific? What role can diplomatic engagement with countries like Canada play in ensuring its security?
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
I don't think “navigate” is the word I would use. We are a democratic country. Being a democratic country, we have already taken sides, so it is not that we navigate between the U.S. and China.
However, proximity is very important in geopolitical strategy. We are living beside a giant neighbour. We don't want to create any hostility or unnecessary tension across the strait, so we need to find a way to deal with our neighbour. This is why you find that politicians in Taiwan can sometimes appear to their supporters and get support. Otherwise, no....
Now, a very important, fundamental truth is this: In Taiwan, more than 85% of respondents to the questionnaire would prefer maintenance of the status quo. This gives you a sense that we just want the status quo.
Liberal
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
Ambassador Tseng, it's always a pleasure to see you. Thank you for joining us.
I would like to ask about the possibility of a blockade rather than a military invasion. As you said, a military invasion may not necessarily be imminent. However, a complete blockade of the island would be an issue, especially since I gather that the United States wouldn't consider it an act of war.
I want to hear your comments on the possibility of a blockade, and how the west can prevent or respond to it, if necessary.
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
Thank you very much. The question is a very important one to ask.
I don't have any panaceas to cure this problem. Blockade is indeed one option China has to deal with Taiwan. They have already used a few live fire drill exercises. After Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan, there was a blockade of almost a week. However, there are arguments of all kinds. Other experts believe that if your intention is to have Taiwan surrender, a blockade is not a viable approach, because you don't know how long that blockade needs to be sustained. Once you have a Chinese blockade, all of the countries that have shown concern for peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait should respond immediately. It doesn't need to be an act of war for the international condemnation to come.
If a blockade is in that area.... The Taiwan Strait is the busiest strait in the world. More than 50% of containers in global trade go through the Taiwan Strait. It is definitely going to disrupt global trade and things like that. All countries will be affected. For us to counter a Chinese blockade, I think a very quick and concerted response from like-minded countries is paramount.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
I want to hear your views on the order of priority for Canada's support measures for Taiwan. For example, we could provide indirect military support by sending frigates to the Taiwan Strait. We could provide economic support by boosting various investments on both sides. We could also provide unofficial diplomatic support, given that there aren't any official diplomatic ties.
Which approach could Canada prioritize? What would help Taiwan the most?
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
That's also a very important question to ask.
When I look at Canada and think about what Canada can do to help Taiwan, I think that what you are already doing, sending your war ships to transit the Taiwan Strait, is very much appreciated. You have already done four transits after the issue of the Indo-Pacific strategy, more than one and a half years ago. That is very important, because the more countries show their intentions to keep the Taiwan Strait as international waters, the high sea, the more China will feel constraint, because China doesn't want to see the Taiwan Strait as international waters.
In terms of Canadian assistance to Taiwan, there are many other non-military approaches that you can render to Taiwan. I don't know if you have noticed, but recently there was a group of former security and defence officers from Canada visiting Taiwan. They came back last weekend and were already interviewed by the CBC program Power & Politics. They see Canada as very timid and very shy in terms of dealing with Taiwan. They were comparing what Canada was doing in those other countries, and in like-minded communities in western countries. There are many things that Canada can do. What was mentioned in that interview was the exchange of high-level visits.
That the Prime Minister and Governor General cannot visit Taiwan is understood, because maybe they carry the symbol of sovereignty. Regarding all the officials under them, there is no reason they cannot visit, because many other countries are doing that. If you can have higher officials visiting Taiwan, that would be very important to the Taiwanese people, because we want to know that we are not alone. Our people want to know that we are standing for a good cause, and that we have the support from like-minded countries. That's very important to us.
Liberal
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
It's very good to always see you again at this committee.
You discussed UN Resolution 2758. The Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China met to discuss the perceived changes that may be occurring in that area.
Can you talk about the meeting that happened in July and what that meant to Taiwan?
Representative, Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Canada
I believe members of this committee know about the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China. This is a cross-country parliamentary alliance reviewing what China is doing in the world and coming up with concerted efforts to safeguard democracy.
At the last meeting in late July in Taipei, it passed a model resolution to urge all those members to go back to their home countries and encourage their colleagues to pass similar resolutions in their respective parliaments. That is very important to us, because what we have read legalistically from UN Resolution 2758 is not what China has portrayed to the world. China has a very clear distortion of this resolution.
As I said in my opening remarks, that legal base should not be taken lightly, because legal warfare, or lawfare, is very important. China cares about its image. The Chinese want the world to know that what they are doing to Taiwan is in accordance with international law, and in their reading of it. We need to know that, in fact, this is entirely not what was stated in UN Resolution 2758. That is not its content.
I don't know if I have more time to explain this resolution; otherwise, I'll stop here.
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
You can certainly continue on with that, because I know that very recently, the Netherlands and Australia did that. They went back to their....
If you could expand on that, please continue. How does Canada have to move in the same direction? What are you working toward in terms of Canada doing the same thing?