National Defence Committee on Sept. 26th, 2024

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

Thank you.

This resolution was passed in October 1971 and mentioned only two things. It was a very simple, very short resolution.

Number one is to recognize the representative of the PRC as the legal representative of China at the UN. Number two is to expel the representative of Chiang Kai-shek from the seat they unlawfully occupy at the UN.

This is what is mentioned in the very short resolution. It does not mention Taiwan at all. It does not have any bearing on the UN members, and I don't think it sets up a political relationship with Taiwan at all. What I said is that it certainly does not preclude Taiwan from participating in the international organization at all.

Unfortunately, after 1971, when China was recognized by the countries in the world one after the other, the whole world subscribed to how China interpreted the resolution. Now, even more so, China is taking Resolution 2758 as being equivalent to its one China principle.

If you don't stop China from distorting this resolution, you are giving it carte blanche to do whatever it wants to Taiwan. It is a clear distortion of the world order.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

In terms of what you're seeing in that change.... After that meeting in July, there were two nations, as I said—Australia and the Netherlands—that went back.

What kind of dynamic has that created since then? What are you seeing?

Do you feel that more movement will occur? Those two things happened very quickly, but as we move forward....

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

Many of my colleagues in different missions are reaching out to their counterparts, as I have been doing by meeting MPs and senators here in Ottawa. I try to explain to them that this is important, not only to Taiwan, but to you as well.

This has in no way violated your current policy. This is very important. Taiwan does not seek to change the status quo. We are not trying to abolish this resolution. We are only asking you to rectify what China has distorted. We are asking for the distortion to be rectified and changed. That's all.

I really hope Canada can follow this model resolution, as has happened in the Australian parliament and the Dutch parliament in the Netherlands. If a resolution or a motion can pass the House of Commons or the Senate, it will be very much appreciated, and it will be a big morale booster to Taiwan.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

That completes our first round. I think we can squeeze in a full 25-minute second round if we're tight and I don't have to interrupt people too much.

Mrs. Gallant, you have five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Your Excellency, how would an actual armed attack on Taiwan by China impact Canadians here at home?

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

This is a hypothetical question about China's attack on Taiwan: How would it affect Canada? First of all, I think that if we see the like-minded countries in the world as a body, as a family, you probably don't want the values you stand for to be challenged. If you ask this question, you could also ask this question: If Ukraine caved in to Putin, what would happen in Canada?

On the first side, it doesn't seem to cause any change in your life, but I think that's the thin end of the wedge. It can come to you because it is very clear that China's intention is not only Taiwan. If China wants to only deal with Taiwan, they don't need to prepare missiles, with thousands of them deployed on the east and west coasts. With all that range, they can shoot missiles well over Taiwan and reach somewhere else in the world, including your territory. They will not stop at Taiwan.

It is a challenge to the international rule of law; the rules-based international order is what they challenge. You probably don't want that, especially now that we are talking about a geopolitical reality that these countries are not acting alone. They are aligned with their peers. China is working with Russia. In the Ukraine theatre, there's Russia, North Korea, Iran. Now they call it the new axis of evil. There are things like that, so we should not single out any part of the world, especially when China's intention is so well known, and they are trying to dominate all the international organizations and have their way through the international community. You don't want to see that happen. It's a very direct impact on Canada.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

In addition to transiting the Taiwan Strait, what can Canada do now to prevent China from invading Taiwan?

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

We probably cannot say for sure how you can stop China from doing that, because, if this is an autocratic country and if everything can be decided by one person, when things become like that it's very unpredictable. It is not like the logic goes that way, and then you come to a conclusion. It can be so unpredictable. It is all depending on one person. This is why, when I say that China is having problems at home, it can quickly translate into some belligerent actions abroad. What you want to do, what I think is the best way, which is effective so far and is still continuing, is to have a collective deterrence.

Look, China meant to intimidate. Intimidation can be countered by deterrence, especially when this is a collective deterrence and a credible deterrence.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What does Taiwan need that Canada can provide in terms of military assistance?

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

The U.S. is the only country that sells arms to Taiwan. If I want to ask Canada to follow suit, I may be asking for too much. You probably are not ready to do that, but there are many things we can do together. With Canada and Australia, you already have the two-plus-two meetings of the foreign minister and the defence minister, so let us follow. Let us be an observer to that, or we could have a deputy minister level of two plus two and things like that. There are many things we can do, because we have done only so much. I have all the friendships in Global Affairs, but I think I want to say to my friends in Global Affairs—some of them may be listening now—that there is much more we can do.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Would joint exercises be something we could do?

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

Joint exercises would be led by the U.S. Is that right?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

That's right.

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

We have our involvement in that, not like warships but together with the operation by personnel. Of course, if you can use all the international forums to speak up for Taiwan, we appreciate that very much. You are much stronger than you think you are, so we appreciate your assistance in any way.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mrs. Gallant.

Madame Lalonde, go ahead for five minutes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much for being here. It's nice to see you.

You mentioned the greater presence of our partners and allies in the Taiwan Strait, and you made a brief reference to Canada's presence. I know there has certainly been an increased presence in the Indo-Pacific region, including in the South China Sea.

Last year, here in Canada, we watched as a Canadian military helicopter, our CH-148 Cyclone, was.... I'll describe this as being “buzzed” by two People's Liberation Army J-11s. It was clear, in our view—and I think in that of those who share our values—that this was an unprofessional and very unsafe activity.

Can you speak to our committee about the impact of this type of behaviour and whether our partners and allies are experiencing the same type of engagement in the region?

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

Everybody knows that war is the least desirable...so decision-makers in almost every country will try to prevent it from happening. However, war happens by accident. This kind of unprofessional contact can easily cause a mid-air collision, which has happened before. It happened in the year 2001 above the island of Hainan. That is not far off from how this helicopter encounter happened. To prevent that from happening.... It takes two to tango, though. You already made your intention very clearly known to the other side. If they choose to ignore your aspiration, you can do very little about it.

However, again, collective effort is very important. The strength of like-minded countries is that we are working with each other. China has no countries to work with. The countries they work with are cornered one way or another in different conflicts. Look at the collective strength of the blocks of like-minded countries—not only the “axis of evil” countries but also those countries that would befriend China at the UN. All together, their economic wealth cannot compare with that of our like-minded countries.

We are in a stronger place. We shouldn't act as if we are in a weaker place.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

My next question will be on diplomatic presence.

You talked about GAC and maybe listening.... Under Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy, how does Canada work with the U.S.? You mentioned Japan as a presence in the Indo-Pacific region. How do our partners engage in the region, and what does Canada's diplomatic presence there entail? How do we work closer and better, going forward, as always?

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

Thank you.

Honestly, I think the IPS that Canada issued in November 2022 is a very comprehensive and progressive policy. After all, it is unprecedented in Canada. You never had that kind of policy, one involving so many agencies and things like that. You have a very good road map as to how you want to engage in the Indo-Pacific region.

Canada is also very important in the G7, as well as in NATO. These strengths seem to be not so much perceived by the Canadian people. That is very unfortunate. You shouldn't always see yourself as a medium power. When you say that, you're thinking about the size of your population, but you are a rich country. You are second only to Russia in terms of territory. You are so rich in natural resources. You haven't used all of your assets yet. This is why I think Canada should play a greater leadership role.

If you think your current leadership is not sufficient, you probably shouldn't just complain. You should take up greater leadership in the G7 and NATO and among like-minded countries. In that case, anything between Canada and Taiwan can loom large. I mean, our bilateral relationship would be upgraded to another level.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madame Lalonde.

Madame Normandin, you have two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a number of questions. I'll focus on microprocessors, which serve as a type of insurance policy for Taiwan.

How much should Taiwan worry about the fact that China and other countries, including India, are also developing their microprocessor expertise?

One day, the expertise of these countries could surpass Taiwan's expertise. How could this change the situation?

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

We are not too worried about whether China will catch up or supersede Taiwan in terms of the chip manufacturing. As I said, China is still very strong at making the mature node chips, because they already have that supply chain. They already have an internal market of all kinds of electric appliances. They make the mature node chips, and there is a market to use them internally.

At the same time, that kind of chip may be only 50 nanometres, not mature at all, or not as advanced as 7 nanometres or even smaller, but those can be used in weaponry systems. That is the concern, but as I said, they didn't buy U.S. chips. The U.S. passed a law in October 2022—the CHIPS and Science Act—and then mobilized like-minded countries to work together. That is still going on. That effort reflects on the export control.

TSMC and other chip makers in Taiwan are not under the embargo or under the sanction with respect to exporting their chips to China, but those are the chips that China can make anyway, and certainly those more advanced chips that can only be made in Taiwan do not go to China at all.

China, because of this external pressure, is trying to really use the so-called whole-of-government approach to break the bottleneck. They want to have their own very advanced chips. They claim that they are able to make some—like 7-nanometre or 5-nanometre chips—but they are actually talking about making them in a lab.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We're going to have to leave the answer there, unfortunately.

[Dr. Harry Ho-jen Tseng]

Okay.

It's not business viable, not commercially viable.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have two and a half minutes, Ms. Mathyssen.