National Defence Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I call the meeting to order.

We are here with the minister and his entourage.

First of all, colleagues, the clerk received a letter concerning some corrections of numbers on the housing study. We'd already signed off on that.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Andrew Wilson]

No. It's just on her appearance.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes, well, it's on that particular appearance.

I asked the analysts to make sure that the numbers were not included in the report. I'm satisfied that's true, so I will be tabling it in the normal course of events. That's for your information.

We are here with Minister Blair to study his mandate.

I know the minister is beyond excited to be here, so I will turn it over to him for his five-minute opening statement. I think I should allow a few minutes for you to introduce some of your team, who are new to the committee but very welcome.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, let me assure you I'm not beyond excited, but I've come right up to the line.

Second, if I may, just as a point of clarification, you said I was here with an entourage and that's not entirely true. I'm here with my team and I'm delighted to have these fine people with me here today.

I'm joined this morning by Deputy Minister Stefanie Beck. I'm also joined by the vice chief of the defence staff, Lieutenant-General Stephen Kelsey. Our ADM of materiel, Nancy Tremblay, has joined us this morning. Also, from CSE, we have our ADM, Wendy Hadwen.

These are important members of our team and I'm sure they'll be able to provide information and insight over the course of my appearance here and later on in their own appearances later this morning.

Mr. Chair and members of the Standing Committee on National Defence, good morning and thank you for the kind invitation to appear before you to discuss my priorities as Minister of National Defence and to endeavour to answer any questions that you may have.

I believe very sincerely that it's good to check in regularly, given the volatility and rapid evolution of the threat environment that Canada and the rest of the world are facing. As the security landscape is shifting, so too must our priorities. We must do whatever is required to defend our nation and to keep Canadians safe. The job that we ask of our CAF members is a difficult and challenging one. We are doing everything we can to support them in that mission.

The world has changed considerably since the mandate letter was issued in 2021. As you'll recall, that was well before Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine. It was before an emboldened China ramped up its assertive, subversive and coercive behaviours and it was before the conflict in the Middle East began spilling over, at great risk to regional and global security.

While we've made considerable progress advancing our 2021 mandate, we've also had to reprioritize and adapt in response to this changing context.

My greatest priority will always be our people and that is a constant that must never change. We remain focused on making sure that they have the support and the resources they need to continue their excellent work that they do on behalf of our country.

For example, we know that CAF families are often at the bottom of local child care wait-lists when relocated or redeployed on short notice. That's why Canada's renewed defence policy, “Our North, Strong and Free”, commits $100 million over five years to enhance child care services for CAF personnel and their families.

We also know that frequent relocations and deployment create unique challenges for our military families when it comes to housing. Our Canadian Forces housing differential came into effect in July 2023 to help CAF members who are living off base adjust to housing costs when relocating in Canada. We are also going to invest in significant new housing for our members. We need to increase housing availability on bases to make sure CAF members and their families have safe, affordable housing.

We're putting forward vital initiatives to ensure that our defence team members have the resources and infrastructure that they need to thrive in their important roles. Serving one's country can be a difficult and challenging occupation. It should not be made more challenging by the conditions under which they serve.

We are also addressing a significant priority of culture change. We have to make sure that all of our CAF members feel well supported by the organization and their nation that they have sworn to protect. Since 2021, we've made some significant progress on Justice Arbour's 48 recommendations in her independent external comprehensive review of the Canadian Armed Forces to implement meaningful and long-lasting cultural change for the Canadian Armed Forces.

I think one of our best examples for that happened just a few weeks ago when Parliament began its second reading of Bill C-66, which will ensure the Criminal Code sexual assault cases in the CAF will be tried in the civilian justice system instead of in military court.

I want to take the opportunity to thank all members present here for their support of that legislation. I very much look forward to us completing second reading and bringing this bill before this committee to allow the committee to do its important work to make sure it is the best bill for the members of the Canadian Armed Forces. I believe that all the changes we're working on together will lead to durable military justice reform and it's going to help CAF members and the Canadian public regain trust in our system.

We're also very focused on making new investment. In response to an evolving global threat environment, we're also investing significantly in new platforms, equipment and capabilities.

The war in Ukraine has taught us a lot about our own strengths and vulnerabilities, as a country, a partner and an ally in our global security network. These lessons informed our updated defence policy, which places a new emphasis and sharp focus on defending our continent and Canada's Arctic, investing in advanced capabilities to better detect, deter and defeat threats, and building up our defence industrial base.

We must demonstrate to our allies that we remain a reliable and valuable partner. At the NATO summit in July, we announced that we will reach NATO's 2% target by 2032.

We're equipping our military with 21st-century capabilities that are going to allow us to operate across all domains, in all environments and alongside our allies and partners, starting with new ships, submarines, vehicles and planes that contribute to our Canadian Armed Forces' operational readiness. We are also modernizing command and control systems.

In order to do this effectively, we know that we must usher in new capabilities in a new era, and we need to find a new approach to modernizing defence procurement. We're actively reviewing our procurement processes to find inefficiencies and build better relationships with industry.

I would also note that we are making the largest investment in our navy and our air force since the Second World War. In “Our North, Strong and Free”, we've outlined how we'll invest in industry to create new production lines and secure supply chains that will allow us to increase production at home. This is going to be good for our military, but it will also be good for our workers, our industry and our economy.

Protecting national security is job one, and I want to acknowledge that we have a great deal to do. Since I got this job, I have tried to make it very clear that Canada must do more, and Canada will do more. We have to live up to our obligations to defend our country and to our international partners.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll happily submit to any questions members may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Minister Blair.

We'll turn to our six-minute round, starting with Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Minister, for joining us this morning. I appreciate that, and all the other witnesses who are joining you from your defence team. Thank you for all of the work you all do in keeping Canada safe and supporting our Canadian Armed Forces and the important work they undertake.

Minister, in the defence policy update, when you look at the defence spending planned for this year of $33.8 billion, the actual spending authorities for CAF and the Department of National Defence—I'm not talking about the creative accounting where we add in other eligible departments at about $7 billion; I'm talking about the direct spending to CAF and the Department of National Defence—are only $30 billion. Why is there a $3-billion shortfall? Is that lapsed spending again, or is it part of the budget cuts?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I believe my staff may be able to provide you a more detailed explanation either during this session or the next—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

If they could send—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—and I would invite them to do that.

If I may simply respond, in 2022-23, for example, we had $1.57 billion in lapsed spending. That reflects some of the challenges we have in actually spending the money that has been allocated and budgeted for the national defence department. For the procurement of large platforms in particular, because we are stewards of taxpayer dollars, it's important that we make sure we are spending them well and wisely and getting the best possible value for those investments while, at the same time, acquiring the best equipment.

Of that $1.57 billion that lapsed in 2022-23, $1.5 billion of that, or 92%, is still available for defence spending for future years. This includes $1 billion for adjustments to spending on capital infrastructure projects and $240 million in carry-forward expenditures. I have—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

That's fine. You can send that to the committee with the details, and we'll definitely look at it.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—a rather long list.

By the way, if I may clarify something, it's not creative accounting; it's actual numbers.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Do you know, Minister, that, at $30 billion, you actually allowed direct defence investment in the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence to slip below 1%? According to the Library of Parliament's calculation, we're at 0.95% when you don't account for other eligible departmental spending of $8 billion.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If I may clarify, the only time that Canada has ever gone below 1% spending—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

It is right now.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—was in 2013-14, when you were the parliamentary secretary to the minister of defence.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Those are two different worlds, Minister, and you know that.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Currently, today—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You know those are two different worlds. There was no war in Ukraine. There was no war in Afghanistan. We were out of Libya. Now we're sitting here with war on our front steps in NATO's eastern flank.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Listen, I don't care about the context or excuses for why it happened; it's only a fact that it did happen, Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I'm asking the questions here, Minister.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If I may—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Gentlemen, it works better when one person asks a question and another person gives an answer, not when you speak simultaneously. I've stopped the clock. I'll allow Mr. Bezan to ask his question again, and then we can go from there.

Mr. Bezan, go ahead.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I'm going to move on, because the minister is just going to talk over me rather than admit to the facts about defence spending when we're in a conflict situation with Ukraine, when we have a greater adversary than we've ever witnessed in China and when we have Israel defending its right to exist against terrorist organizations, along with the government of Iran and the terrorist regime in Tehran.

I want to get down to NORAD modernization at $38.6 billion. We're getting new P-8s and we're getting new F-35s, finally, that are all going to be delivered in 2026. Our air wings across this country, including our forward operating locations, have to be modernized, and security has to be installed before we receive those planes.

To date, you've only spent $30 million. Where is this money going? Why is it taking so long? We have planes coming and no infrastructure is being built.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, Mr. Bezan, if I may be allowed to answer your question, we have actually budgeted $38.6 billion for NORAD modernization. We're working very closely with the commander of NORAD and with our American allies in making those investments.

According to the plan in those investments, we know we needed to acquire new capabilities. Also, as you've already acknowledged, we signed a contract for the replacement of the CP-140s with the P-8s. Those will begin to be delivered by 2026, with full delivery by 2028. I think that's a very significant advancement.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Are the wings in Comox and Cold Lake going to be ready to receive them?