National Defence Committee on March 23rd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Could you recommence your answer, please?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I have already announced six tranches of lethal and non‑lethal military assistance for Ukraine since February alone. That's over $100 million in lethal and non‑lethal military assistance for Ukraine. We are working tirelessly with our allies to deliver it.

As to my colleague's question about what we can do in the future, we're working with our partners and allies to make sure that we can continue to send and provide lethal and non‑lethal military assistance to Ukraine.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Minister.

Yes, we can hear you much more clearly now. May I suggest that you consider repurposing the banned weapons and expediting the program that is now scheduled for fall 2023?

The last time I asked a question about what the Operation UNIFIER personnel were doing, since they were relocated from Ukraine to Poland, they were helping to look after refugees, primarily in Poland.

I'd like you to give us an update on the current role of those involved in Operation UNIFIER.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you very much for your question.

With respect to the last question, I am in direct contact with Ukraine's defence minister, Mr. Reznikov, and we often talk about what more we can do for Ukraine. I will continue to provide military aid to Ukraine based on these conversations.

As to your other question, our mission in Ukraine is a training mission, of course. It's not a combat mission, but our soldiers want to help if they can. We will continue to work closely with our allies to improve the situation there.

Because this is also an operational security issue, I can't give you a lot of details. We need to ensure the safety and stability of the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

We are currently discussing an increase of more than 2% to the National Defence budget. However, some things will admittedly take a long time. I'm thinking, for example, of the culture change in the military and changes to the procurement system.

Madam Minister, given this rapid increase, could you name one thing for me that can be done in the short term, at least, with respect to recruitment and retention, an important issue facing the Armed Forces?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for this very important question.

For example, we need women in our military. They need to be able to work in an environment where they feel safe, protected and respected. The National Defence team is working to change its culture to create a better, safer work environment for women. The team is looking at new ways to reach out to women to promote the Canadian military and better serve them by creating more inclusive policies and work environments.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, but your response was more about long-term measures than short-term ones.

Briefly, are you communicating with whoever is now in your former position about making changes to military procurement methods, which is another issue?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I'd be happy to, if Mr. Chair will give me a little more time.

Considering that procurement is really an issue with respect to the forces, could you tell me if you speak frequently with the minister in your former position at Public Services and Procurement about improving the military procurement system?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

We are constantly focused on supply, and in particular recruitment and retention. That is a main priority for the chief of the defence staff and me. Part of what we are asking for in supplementary estimates (C) today is to have funding to continue to create a diverse, modern and agile Canadian Armed Forces.

What are we going to do? In the short term, we're going to be prioritizing efforts to enact meaningful culture change. We're launching a new retention strategy in 2022 to retain members, including from under-represented groups, and we're reviewing training at every level.

Those are short-term efforts that we are taking to address supply and improve recruitment, retention and reconstitution, but this is not going to be a process that is improved overnight or even within the next week. We have to maintain consistent efforts to improve recruitment, retention and reconstitution, because the forces are one of the most important institutions in this country. As I've said in my remarks, we need to do everything we can to ensure their longevity.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madame Normandin.

My sense is that the minister's microphone is working reasonably well at this point. Am I correct about that? Good.

Madam Mathyssen, the final six minutes are yours.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

Just last year the Taliban seized stockpiles of U.S. weapons after the group overthrew the Afghan government. In 2011, the Libyan civil war resulted in the spread of weapons across Africa. According to the UN, some of those weapons went to terrorist groups via the black market. Now, of course, with shipments of weapons going to the Ukraine, some are really quite concerned and warning that parts of those shipments could end up on the black market or turned actually against the Ukrainian people if they end up in the hands of the Russian military or local paramilitary groups. There have been a lot of skeptics of Canada's tracking of those weapons as per the Arms Trade Treaty.

Can you tell this committee what measures you've put in place to guarantee the tracking of these weapons?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'll begin by saying we are working as quickly as possible to deliver new tranches of aid to Ukraine. As I said, two shipments of our lethal aid arrived prior to February 22. I can confirm that millions of dollars' worth of our aid has arrived in Ukraine and is making a difference on the ground as we speak. I want to be clear, however, that given the nature of this conflict, we are taking the security of the aid, and the personnel delivering it, very seriously and are unable to provide more detail for operational security reasons.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Putin has threatened that if foreign national fighters, including Canadians, were captured, they would be treated as mercenaries, not legitimate prisoners of war. They would be charged criminally, and they wouldn't have those protections guaranteed for them under the Geneva Convention.

Does your government have contingency plans for Canadians who could fall into this category, and what protections or supports are you putting in place for retired or former CAF members doing that fighting in Ukraine?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I just want to reiterate on the last question that National Defence has signed a declaration with Ukraine's armed forces that all weapons provided will not be transferred to any other entity. In my in-person conversation with Minister Reznikov in Kyiv, before the further invasion occurred, he assured me that would be the case. We also have had a long relationship with the Ukrainian army. We have been able to work very closely with them in terms of the transfer of weapons.

In terms of your question related to the Canadian Armed Forces, I'm going to ask my vice-CDS if she would like to respond.

Thank you.

[Lieutenant-General Frances J. Allen, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence]

Certainly, one of the things that we are always concerned about, as the minister identified, is that we are working closely with our allies in ways that help them and meet their requirements and their needs moving forward. That is one of the key components of everything we do, from providing aid through to the work we do with allies prior to the conflict and the time frame we have. I would say that is one of the key components of making sure the capabilities we're delivering and the training we provide meet the needs of the ally we're working with.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

For the minister, because I didn't actually hear a response in that in terms of what supports will be put into place, especially if we're talking about former CAF members, former military members: What supports will be put in place to protect those individuals despite Putin's aggression against them and his claims that they would not be protected under the Geneva Convention?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Military service places a unique demand on members and families, as your question suggests. We have the service income security insurance plan, which provides financial and insurance services and products to Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans and their families. This includes life insurance, long-term disability coverage, insurance benefits, financial planning, counselling and education services—

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I'm sorry, Minister. That's not at all what I'm asking. I'm not sure.... I can repeat it again.

Specifically, Putin has threatened foreign nationals with not being protected under the Geneva Convention. This is not necessarily about those income supports or what have you. This is about if they are criminally charged, if they are taken. What supports are you and the government giving to former armed forces members who may be in that situation?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for the clarification.

Global Affairs Canada advises against going as mercenaries to Ukraine. I believe the vice-CDS has a comment that she would like to make.

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

Thank you, Minister.

I apologize for having answered the wrong part of the question in what the member was looking for on that last part.

As the minister just stated Global Affairs has identified for Canadians the risks that are associated with going into a conflict zone at any given point in time, not only to their own physical safety and protection, but also in terms of the disinformation, the ways in which foreigners who may be engaged in the country can be used in ways that are difficult and counterproductive to the work that is going on there through the disinformation campaigns that we know Russia is very apt to use.

From a Canadian Armed Forces members' perspective, the CDS has sent a directive that prohibits members of the Canadian Armed Forces, regular force and reserve, from being in the area at this point in time unless they are on CDS-approved military missions. Current CAF members are not permitted to be in the area, even if they were to be on leave.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

So if—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, Ms. Mathyssen, [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I appreciate your frustration, because it took some time to get closer to the answer. You may have to use some of your other time.

I have 10 minutes, colleagues, and 25 minutes' worth of questions. The minister has a hard stop at 4:30 p.m. I could do a lightning round—two minutes, two minutes, one minute, one minute, two minutes, two minutes—unless you just want me to treat this as one ongoing hour and a half of questions, and when the minister leaves, the minister leaves.

What is your preference—short snappers?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Let's continue on for the full length of the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We'll continue on? Okay.

There will be two questioners in the second round—Ms. Gallant and Ms. O'Connell—and then the minister will have to leave and you'll have to carry on your questions with the others.