Evidence of meeting #33 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was caf.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
To add to that question, what would motivate provinces that are less prepared to increase their preparedness?
12:45 p.m.
LCol (Ret'd) David Redman
First of all, I believe every province and territory is motivated. They simply have fewer resources. When you look at somewhere like Nunavut and compare it to Alberta, you can see the automatic difference. It's something like the Yukon to Alberta. That's where you need to ensure that there's mutual aid between bordering organizations.
That's where the role of the federal government comes in, to make sure there's an even capability in provinces that don't have the ability to do it themselves. I don't mean by using the Department of National Defence. I mean by building their emergency management operations capability and coordinating across moving public or not-for-profit agencies as required during an emergency.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Ms. Cohen, is the German THW run by a third-party NGO-led organization, or is it run by the government, like a Crown corporation?
12:45 p.m.
President, Civil Protection Youth Canada, As an Individual
It is a government organization and a federal agency. Everybody expects a big building with bureaucracy in that, but in reality, it lives at the regional level, which makes it so unique. It's really the people who are the organization. Only 2% are paid staff, and the majority of that staff are at the regional level.
What I would love the committee to do is ask Germany, at all three levels of government, why it thinks this is a win-win situation.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
The Canadian model is seemingly moving toward that third-party NGO-led.... What are the dangers of that? Please be superquick.
12:45 p.m.
President, Civil Protection Youth Canada, As an Individual
It's very dangerous, because you lose control of the money. That's the quickest answer I can give.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Redman, I want to go back to the conversation we were having in the last round. We're going to have another pandemic-like event. We've had them over the years and decades. If you were to make recommendations to government on a domestic response to a pandemic and the use of resources, what would you suggest the priorities need to be?
12:45 p.m.
LCol (Ret'd) David Redman
First of all, we need to hold a national inquiry that is not run by government. It has to be independent. We have to really look at what other places did, like Sweden. That's exactly what our plan said we were going to do.
The lessons learned process is a real process. It calls for discipline, and there are experts in how to conduct it. They should be part of that committee. You don't base lessons learned on beliefs. You base them on evidence. They're not learned, if you then don't write a plan to say exactly how you're incorporating them.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
In the 30 seconds I have left, can you tell me what—
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
You don't have 30 seconds left, but because I'm a nice guy, you're going to get 30 seconds.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you, John.
Why do you think the government didn't follow the plans that it had set up previously for exactly this event?
12:50 p.m.
LCol (Ret'd) David Redman
I'm afraid you'll have to ask the government. I have given many presentations. I have worked with governments across this country. I have written to every premier in this country 12 times. I gave up on them and wrote my position paper.
I know there are many doctors who are extremely upset, because I've worked with them and briefed them. They have been silenced through censorship.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bryan May Liberal Cambridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My questions will be to Ms. Cohen. I'm very intrigued by the volunteer-driven programs you're talking about in Germany. Does Germany still have mandatory military service?
No, it does not. When did that change?
12:50 p.m.
President, Civil Protection Youth Canada, As an Individual
It was a couple of years back.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bryan May Liberal Cambridge, ON
Is there still mandatory volunteer service? I remember that, if individuals didn't want to be in the military, they could volunteer. That was around for a long time, was it not?
12:50 p.m.
President, Civil Protection Youth Canada, As an Individual
Yes, that was actually the main recruitment tool for a long time for the civil protection approach.
In the meantime, Germany has realized that it's actually the youth component that has the biggest potential. This is also why I started the youth program, because we have to think about why it is that Germany trains 500,000 youth starting at the age of six to be responders, and how this reflects on people's attitudes about the need for preparedness. We don't do any of this in Canada and just expect adults to do the right thing.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bryan May Liberal Cambridge, ON
Yes, that's sort of what I'm getting at. I have friends and family who have spent a lot of time in Germany, and they talk about this sort of culture of volunteerism that is ingrained in society there.
I'm wondering if that's the gap we're seeing here. Taking that step and making it mandatory for a high school graduate to put two years toward some sort of volunteer service is a pretty extreme step. Are we going to need to do something like that to create or foster that kind of culture?
12:50 p.m.
President, Civil Protection Youth Canada, As an Individual
That's a great question, because mandatory volunteerism is the death of volunteerism. It's much better to appeal to a bigger sense of purpose and being able to have a role.
If you think of the fact that government does not have a choice and as citizens we also don't have a choice as to what happens with taxpayers' money in that respect, asking reactively for donations and solidarity—and there's always room for that—and then matching that with taxpayers' money again is not the best way we can do this.
In Germany you pay around $10, let's say, a year. As a taxpayer I have the choice to be part of that response and have a role, and I like to say, “To stand on guard for Canada”. That taxpayers' money is invested proactively to create the system that enables everybody, from youth to veteran to senior, to be part of the answer to the problem.
That is a choice that currently does not exist, so government needs to enable volunteerism. I don't think it's a question of culture. It's that our government doesn't make it possible. People don't have the ability to volunteer in the capacity that needs to be rapidly available.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
We're going to have to, unfortunately, leave it there.
On behalf of the committee, I want to thank both of you for your presence and thoughts—clear and articulate thoughts, may I say. I think it will be interesting to hear what the reflections of committee members are in a short while.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.
In panel one, there was a comment where the first witness said he would have to look into a question, and I just want to ensure for my colleague who asked the question that there is a definite follow-up with the witness so that we can obtain the information he didn't have at his fingertips.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Okay, I think that's a fair comment.
Colleagues, your subcommittee has met. It has produced a report.