National Defence Committee on Oct. 6th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Trehearne, I apologize in advance, and behind, for continually cutting you off.

[Deryck Trehearne]

I'll have to make my answers shorter, Mr. Chair. I'm sorry about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

My colleagues will make my life miserable if I don't stay within the timelines.

We're in our second round. I think we can get through it at five minutes a pop. We will see whether we can do it.

Mr. Perkins, welcome to the committee. You have five minutes, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to join the committee.

My questions, if you will indulge me, are obviously current, live and local, as I'm sure our colleague Mr. Fisher would probably want to deal with, around hurricane Fiona.

Can you let the committee know exactly what the preparations were by the federal government in the lead-up to hurricane Fiona to prepare for the emergency response, since we knew probably for about two weeks the likelihood that this particular hurricane would make landfall in Nova Scotia and go through Atlantic Canada?

[Deryck Trehearne]

I'm happy to. I think there are colleagues in Environment Canada and the Canadian hurricane centre who obviously might want to comment on that as well.

I'll take a step back. Hurricanes are considered a cyclical risk every year in Canada. Every year in Canada the best scientific minds provincially and federally do a hurricane risk assessment. My group coordinates that piece of work with them, and we roll that up and it is presented and shared with ministers—the Minister of Emergency Preparedness in this case—in terms of the risk assessment. That's also shared with all provincial and federal colleagues in terms of the emergency management world. There is an annual risk assessment and that involves people like Environment Canada, the Canadian hurricane centre and the provinces as well in terms of their risk. That's up front and that happens every year.

What we do in my group is go out and meet with every one of the provinces—primarily the Atlantic provinces in terms of hurricanes—that are at risk and we discuss that risk assessment with them. We validate what they believe, whether it's true or false, and what their preparations are. Actually my group met with them individually long before hurricane Fiona hit, in June and July, when these hurricane risk assessments were published, and we talked to them about their preparedness for these things. Nova Scotia at the time was quite confident in its ability to respond as it tends to be one of the harder hit provinces obviously when we do get these hurricanes. The last big one was three years ago—hurricane Dorian—as you may recall.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'll interrupt, because I have limited time.

When did your office get calls—and from whom—for assistance on hurricane Fiona?

[Deryck Trehearne]

I'd have to check the exact dates, but obviously it was essentially the day it hit or the day after. I would have to go back and check the exact dates. I was away actually that week, but I can provide that to the committee if you like.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Did that include specific requests for numbers of people from the Canadian Armed Forces to help?

[Deryck Trehearne]

There were requests for supports of all kinds. We kind of vet those calls with the province and the emergency management folks. We talk about what the need is, what the gap is, what the province has or doesn't have and whether it is overwhelmed, and then where we can fill the gaps. In this case obviously the armed forces are deployed. In this case, as we all know, they are doing debris cleanup, they're cutting wood, etc.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Following hurricane Dorian, within a week there were 700 troops on the ground in Nova Scotia. This time there were only 200. The province, as the premier said this week, had asked for 1,000 and I think 500 have been provided or maybe a little over that now. Can you explain to me why, when a request comes in from a premier saying they need 1,000, the federal government does not supply the required numbers that the provincial emergency preparedness office is requesting?

[Deryck Trehearne]

We work with the provinces to supply what they feel they need on the ground, and we work at the officials' level on that. For Dorian, I can't remember the exact number of CAF troops. I'm not sure if it was 700. I'd have to go back and check. They were there for a very short period of time, a few days. In the case of Fiona, they've already been there longer. My understanding from the CAF is that there are upwards of 600 folks, possibly more. We can provide those numbers to the committee if you like.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

When the premier comes out publicly and says he asked for 1,000 and he's not getting 1,000, then there's a problem in the system.

[Deryck Trehearne]

Requests for assistance are sometimes dynamic things, and there can be a lot of back-and-forth in terms of what the need is on the ground.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Is your office getting those required or requested troops now to Nova Scotia?

[Deryck Trehearne]

Those troops are deployed right now, and we are actually having meetings with our colleagues in Nova Scotia again today to assess what more they may need, where exactly and what capabilities they need deployed to help further. We're actually having that conversation around three o'clock this afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Fisher, you have five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deryck, for correcting Mr. Perkins' incorrect numbers there.

We talked a little bit about the process when a province or a territory needs federal assistance. We talked a little bit about the number of requests. I just want to talk about the types of support that Ps and Ts can access through an RFA during major disasters like hurricane Fiona and others, of which, unfortunately, there are more each year. The Government of Canada, through the disaster financial assistance arrangements, pays the lion's share of support in recovery through the provinces and territories. I think it's somewhere near 90% of the total that the federal government picks up.

With respect to requests for federal assistance and CAF assistance, what are the types of supports that provinces and territories can access?

[Deryck Trehearne]

In terms of CAF assistance or more broadly...?

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Additional federal assistance.

[Deryck Trehearne]

If you look at what's going on with Fiona for instance, you see that you have the CAF. You have the Coast Guard. You'll sometimes have Environment Canada. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans will be helping. Obviously, you'll have Natural Resources Canada in terms of impacts on farming and agriculture and other things. There are a number of federal capabilities that are deployable in any given emergency.

Obviously, I've already spoken about the things on the public health side for COVID, which are significant, and then, of course, additional federal supports of a very significant nature for first nations in terms of emergency management, funding and response.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

Mr. May touched on the Red Cross in one of his questions earlier. Can you explain what support...?

Also, thank you for that long list of supports that the federal government provides. Maybe you can touch on some of the things that the Red Cross provides.

[Deryck Trehearne]

The Red Cross is, obviously, excellent at supporting Canadians and folks who have been impacted, organizing everything from coordinating a local municipal response, name checks and checking people in to finding accommodations, respite, food and clothing—what we call real-life supports. It ranges a whole continuum, as I said, all the way to mass clinical care. The Red Cross has mobile health units and mobile hospitals, and then it also has nurses and doctors that can be deployed as well. It has a whole continuum, nationally, of skill sets and capacities that can be deployed to help.

The CAF also has a huge range of capabilities it can deploy, one of the best being planning and coordination in support of a municipality. Often, in the case of Fiona and other examples, we'll send a planning group in, which you might think isn't a big deal, but when you're a municipality facing something you're unused to, having additional planning and coordinating folks who understand that business and are able to target a response is a huge boon to them.

There is also, as I think my colleagues at National Defence have talked about, the critical mass of boots on the ground for major events when really just mass is required for cleanup, as we're seeing in Atlantic Canada right now. There's just a range of federal supports available, and that's distinct from all the funding programs you just referenced as well. There's a huge number of these, and there's literally an ADM coordinating committee of all the federal programming supports for Atlantic Canada under way right now.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's very helpful. Thank you.

Notwithstanding the requests that came during the COVID period, we know that climate change is leading to more and more severe weather events, from Fiona in Atlantic Canada to floods and fires out west. What are becoming the most common requests for federal assistance?

[Deryck Trehearne]

That's a good question.

COVID was very interesting, but, as you said, it was kind of unique. Let's hope it's fading. There were a lot of supports for medical personnel, vaccination, etc., in that one. In terms of climate change, obviously that's fires and floods, and that's about evacuation and airlift. The CAF has finite resources when it comes to airlift. Given international events over the last couple of years, that's also more constrained.

For instance, we helped evacuate an entire first nation, the Mathias Colomb, in Manitoba from a fire risk this summer. That was 2,000-odd folks. Between the first nation's emergency management folks, the provinces and us, there was a major evacuation there. Those are the kinds of things we're seeing.

Last year in northern Ontario and B.C., the fires were extensive. There were massive efforts in Ontario to airlift first nations out of isolated communities that do not have road access into places in northern Ontario and the GTA as well. Again, that's airlift, coordination, real-life supports and medical and health—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's me cutting you off once again. I apologize.

Ms. Normandin, go ahead. You have two and a half minutes.