National Defence Committee on Oct. 18th, 2022

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

I have another question specifically on consultations.

You already spoke about consulting indigenous communities, but my question is a bit more specific because I sit on the status of women committee as well. We've learned a lot about indigenous women and girls and the impact of resource extraction in areas such as those. I believe that the building of infrastructure could have a similar impact on these communities and on women and girls.

Are they being consulted? Is anything being done to prevent the tragedies that happen to these women when groups of men are brought into the community to work on projects?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, as we do our consultations, we have to have a gender-based approach to ensure we've got the full view of the communities and the impact that our presence or activities would have on them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Quinn, do you have anything to add?

[Jonathan Quinn]

I'll add very briefly, Mr. Chair. It's a really important point.

As the chief of the defence staff said, we did extensive GBA+ analysis as the proposals were being put together.

The consultations to date with indigenous leadership have been very initial, pre-decision consultations. As we move forward with implementation and look at what specific investments are going to be made in the north, those more in-depth consultations will certainly take into account the unique experiences of women and girls. As these projects are being implemented, they will certainly be taken into account and given lots of consideration.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madam Lambropoulos.

Go ahead, Ms. Normandin. You have two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to pick up where Mrs. Kramp-Neuman left off. I want to talk about the personnel shortage.

General Eyre, you recently announced budget cuts to unnecessary activities. However, since you're having trouble bringing in new members to rebuild the strength of the Canadian Armed Forces, or CAF, can we expect budget cuts to necessary activities? I hope not.

With that in mind, I'd like to know where a strong presence in the Arctic is on the CAF's list of priorities, given obligations such as domestic operations and support for NATO's enhanced forward presence. I know everything is important, but where is it on the list of priorities?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Thank you for the question.

The operations we carry out here, in the country, to protect Canadians remain a priority. They are more important than discretionary operations overseas, but we do have to balance the two.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

With the remilitarization of the Arctic, having a strong presence in the area is pretty important. I'd like to know what is being done to ensure that presence.

I'd also like you to comment on the Canadian Rangers and the role they may have to play.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

As you know, the Arctic is a vast region, so it isn't easy to have a presence in every area of the region. That's why it's so important to have a system that provides better situational awareness, which helps us focus and channel our efforts where resources are needed.

You're right to say that the Canadian Rangers are an important tool in building our situational awareness. That may be an organization where we need to invest more resources.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Next is Ms. Mathyssen, for two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

In terms of your call recently for that halt of non-essential activities, a lot of concern is brought into the equation when there's a belief that a lot of the outsourcing of that work would go to private contractors. Can you speak to how you are not doing that?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, the question pertains to the reconstitution order that has recently gone out. Every activity we undertake is being done through the lens of reconstitution, specifically for our key resource right now, which is mid-level leaders—our master corporals, our sergeants, our petty officers, our captains, our majors, our lieutenant-commanders—because they are the critical resource for not only training the next generation and rebuilding our force but also for implementing many of the initiatives we have under way. It's really what I call our change capacity.

There's not one single silver bullet for reconstitution in terms of great big activities that we can stop doing; it's a thousand small activities that we take a look at through that lens and gradually and collectively save that capacity and refocus it on where it needs to go.

Are there other activities that are better done by the public service? Absolutely. We're in constant work there with the defence team as to what is much better done with somebody military or somebody who is a public servant. That structural work continues as we design the force of the future.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

We've obviously learned a lot throughout COVID in terms of the stresses on our health care system and those human resources being put to capacity. When you talk about this reconstitution, more work may fall on those mid-level folks. How are you finding that balance for them?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, that is an absolutely critical question, because we have to manage the tempo of those mid-level leaders to ensure that they stay with us. You could almost look at it as individual reconstitution

Every Canadian has had a hard time coming through the pandemic. You see it in some of the stress in our society. That is no different for members of the Canadian Forces. We need to invest in wellness. That's a leadership priority at all levels to make sure that the tempo is managed, to make sure that we achieve sufficient work-life balance and to make sure that we have proper investments in our own health care system.

I think it's important to recognize that under the Canadian health care act, the Canadian Armed Forces has its own health care system. For the regular force, that's where we get our primary health care. That desperately needs reconstituting as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we'll have to leave the answer there. I appreciate it. Ms. Mathyssen's time is up. I don't take any great joy in cutting off a general.

Ms. Gallant, you have five minutes, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, the integrated logistics support, ILS, at Inuvik, NORAD's forward operating location, is the epicentre of the Canadian NORAD air defence and the only operational military base in North America on the Arctic Ocean.

Who ordered real property operations to terminate the ILS hangarage contract, which conflicts with the SSE and the minister's mandate?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, I don't know. Jonathan, do you know?

[Jonathan Quinn]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Do you want them to—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes. I would like to find that out. We're not sure if it was something that was an actual political order or if it was the bureaucracy that just made that on their own. How did they essentially overstep you?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, we'll take that question on notice.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

General Eyre, during previous testimony you stated that the reason the CAF members were being fired over refusing the COVID shots was that it poses a lethal health risk to people as well as the risk of a spread on a ship, but HMCS Winnipeg returned to port after seven sailors tested positive while at sea. It would seem that the shots that you said were necessary to stop that spread didn't work.

How conducive do you think it is for potential recruits to see the firing of a number of CAF members because they didn't want to play a COVID-shot roulette, and how many troops are getting the boot for refusing to take the shot?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

May I, at this point, intervene and say that I said at the beginning that we've invited General Eyre and his colleagues here for our Arctic study. It's pretty hard for me to determine how that question relates to the study on which he has been invited.

I'm going to permit General Eyre to respond to that question if he wishes. However, I say to colleagues again that we've stayed on this subject matter for pretty well the balance of the hour and I don't like to see us leave the subject.