National Defence Committee on Feb. 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's a complicated question to be answered in 30 seconds or less.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'll start.

It is important to remember that we will run an open and transparent competition. Our objective is to design a process that will allow us to obtain the best plane for the best possible price for all Canadians.

This process includes a fairness monitor, and it is important for the process to be open and transparent for Canada and for the Canadian Armed Forces.

General Eyre may have something to add.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, General Eyre is not going to get a chance to weigh in on that question, but I'm sure he will over the course of the next hour.

Thank you, Madame Normandin.

We have Madam Mathyssen for six minutes, please.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and General Eyre, for joining us today.

The Deschamps report on sexual misconduct in the military was released April 30, 2015, yet the government has not fully implemented those recommendations in the Deschamps report. It has been seven years almost.

In the former parliamentary session on the status of women committee we studied this. We looked at the Deschamps report. Numerous other justices and entities have looked at and said to implement the Deschamps report.

Why have you not yet implemented the reforms of the Deschamps report?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Actually, I would beg to differ that we have not implemented reforms suggested by the report. We have been making very meaningful reforms relating to culture. In particular, you will recall that the main contribution of the Deschamps report was to highlight the fact that there is a crisis of culture in the Canadian Armed Forces, so what we have been doing is ensuring that we are building an armed forces where everyone can be safe, respected and supported.

DND has allocated $236 million over five years to address sexual misconduct and gender-based violence, and to support survivors. These funds will enable the sexual misconduct response centre to expand its capacity and services to regional offices across the country, including by building a peer support program. The centre's also developing a restorative engagement program, and military police are improving staff training to include a more victim-centric and trauma-informed approach to support those who come forward.

We also have implemented the Victims Bill of Rights.

I believe we are continuing to make progress. We have more work to do, and I am committed to taking on that task.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Unfortunately, in the study I was referring to in the status of women committee, we heard quite the opposite, Minister. I know you're new to this role and it's, hopefully, a different mandate under your leadership. However, that is not at all what we heard from a lot of the women who had served and who had to abandon their entire career because they weren't seeing that turnaround that needed to happen.

I find it difficult when you continue to reference waiting for the Arbour report. I have absolutely no doubt that Justice Arbour will do an incredible job, and I have all of the respect and hopes that the report will be a stellar one. However, when it's the fifth review that you are waiting for, this simply seems like diversion.

What can you say? How can you reassure people—especially the women but also the members from the armed forces and people within DND and the civilian forces—who have seen quite the opposite?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I take issue with the characterization that we are waiting for anything. Since I've been on the ground, since day one, I have been taking action on this file.

On November 4, just days after I was appointed, I accepted the interim recommendation of Madam Arbour and began the process of transferring cases from the military justice system to the civilian justice system.

We are not waiting. In fact, we are moving ahead very expeditiously in terms of implementing reforms that will assist women, assist minorities and assist LGBTQ in terms of adapting and ensuring that they have a place within the Canadian Armed Forces that is safe and secure, and will ensure that they are protected. That is my priority as minister. That is what I am working on every day with the chief of the defence staff and my deputy minister, and we will not stop until we ensure that the Canadian Armed Forces is a place where all can function in a safe and respectful environment.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I'm certainly glad to hear the passion and the strength with which you want to move forward. I hope that it continues and happens in that faster way.

One of the things we've also heard is how this toxic culture has led to significant retention and recruitment issues. A lot of it also centres around mental health and stability. One thing you and I have discussed before is bringing forward my colleague Randall Garrison's bill to improve mental health within the Canadian Armed Forces, Bill C-206.

With this bill, he wants to remove a clause from the military code that designates self-harm as a punishable offence. That condition is considered to be a barrier to a lot of armed forces members who are facing mental health struggles, but don't want to come forward and potentially face that punishment. The problem of death by suicide for Canadian Armed Forces members is not going away. We are losing more than one serving member per month to death by suicide.

Can you speak to this committee about moving this piece of legislation forward? The aim in hitting this archaic legislation is to prevent that avoidance of service, and taking out self-harm simply removes that perceived barrier to treatment. Wouldn't this be an incredible way for us to address some of those retention, recruitment and mental health stigmas and barriers that lie in the way of the Canadian men and women who serve in the armed forces?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That is an extremely important question but, unfortunately, Ms. Mathyssen has left you no time to answer it. I am under time constraints already, so we're going to have to move on to the second round.

Colleagues, we have 30 minutes of questions in the second round and we have 20 minutes before the minister is obliged to leave. I'm going to be arbitrary and cut each member back a minute. Hopefully, with economies of questions and economies of answers, we will get through the second round.

Mr. Motz, you have four minutes, please.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Doherty.

Minister, you've written on public sector accountability. Now, in this role, you have an opportunity to translate your writings into action.

Let me ask you about the Canadian Forces ombudsman's office. My understanding is that the ombudsman's budget is controlled by the chief of the defence staff. Interestingly, in 2018, the ombudsman went to the then defence minister Harjit Sajjan over multiple allegations of sexual misconduct at the highest ranks of the forces. The office of the ombudsman was then subjected to an investigation shortly thereafter, which was ordered by the then chief of the defence staff.

My question is very simple. When will you report back to this committee on exactly when you intend to fix this and ensure the absolute independence of the Canadian Forces ombudsman's office?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'll begin by saying that our government is deeply committed to transparency and respects the important work that the ombudsman does. I met with the ombudsman late in 2021 and conveyed this point to him.

In May 2015, certain financial authorities in the ombudsman's office were taken away, following findings of irregularities by an Auditor General report. The chief of the defence staff and deputy minister have requested more details on these incidents to review and resolve them, but rest assured, I do believe in the full functioning of an ombudsman's office like the one we have here.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Doherty.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have two and a half minutes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thanks for being here.

Pardon the brevity, I don't have a lot of time.

Can you tell me the national 10-digit Canada suicide prevention hotline, yes or no?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

No, I cannot.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Minister, can you tell me the Halton regional branch, in your riding, of the Canadian Mental Health Association's 10-digit crisis hotline, yes or no?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am very committed to mental health issues and issues relating to suicide.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I get that, Minister.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'd like to ask where the member is going with these questions.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Minister, the Canadian Forces member assistance program has a 10-digit distress number. Can you tell me that number?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The number is easily accessible to me. I do not have it in front of me at this moment, if that is what the member is asking.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Minister, I'm not trying to embarrass you. I'm merely trying to point out that, in a crisis when seconds count, having an easily remembered three-digit number like 988 can be critical in saving lives. Would you agree to that?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Yes, I would.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Minister, are you familiar with my Bill C-211 that passed in 2018, an Act to establish a federal framework on PTSD?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I am.