Evidence of meeting #64 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was billion.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Can you tell us what the balance of trade in the military industry is between Canada and the other NATO countries?
June 9th, 2023 / 9:55 a.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
That's an interesting question. I say that because I don't have the answer, unfortunately.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
The reason I'm asking is that we're often chastised for the percentage of spending by NATO, and yet in some respect we're being told by the very producers that we buy from.... There obviously is an interest in our procuring from some of these major markets.
My suspicion, and I think you've alluded to this now a number of times, is that Canada has a small critical mass. We're unable to compete effectively on some of the big projects. Consequently, we are reliant on foreign support. At the same time, we're trying to procure locally to provide some sovereignty issues on our part, but then, how many of our local producers are selling abroad? Do you have a sense?
9:55 a.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
No, I don't have a sense, but I know there are areas of excellence that export. It's been widely reported in the media for some of these years, but I don't have an overall number when it comes to the balance of trade in the military area.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
It would be nice to know.
In regard to the actual procurement process, you talk about it being more focused and having fewer individuals. The complexity of these projects is substantive. Treasury Board is going to be required in order to allot the required funding.
How is that going to actually make procurement that much more simple, when in fact you're going to end up going through the same process anyway?
10 a.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
If you have one ultimate decision-maker responsible as opposed to having two or even more than two, it reduces the number of steps. If they can sing from the same songbook at the beginning as opposed to having interdepartmental meetings, meeting after meeting, and having different processes in two different institutions, it can streamline things.
You're right. If you have the right persons, despite having the wrong governance structure, sometimes it can work, but it has to have the right governance structure in place to streamline things to the extent possible.
10 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
I appreciate that.
If there's more time, I want to understand the political undertones here. The sovereignty issues, the notions of trying to support other issues beyond the diplomatic stuff—I guess I could put it that way—that has to.... You can't determine that on occasion. That's where the complexity comes into play.
I appreciate your testimony.
10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mr. Sousa.
Surprise, surprise, a former finance minister defends the Treasury Board. That's the first time in history that anyone has defended Treasury Board.
With that, I want to thank our witnesses. You have launched this study brilliantly. We really do appreciate it. You've directed us to the critical questions that need to be asked.
Thank you for not only your hour, but your hour and 15 minutes.
With that, colleagues, I'm going to adjourn, but for those who are online—
10 a.m.
The Clerk
No, you just need to suspend.
10 a.m.
The Clerk
You can adjourn if you want.
10 a.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Andrew Wilson
For the benefit of the colleagues online, which is why I thought we had to adjourn, you have to leave the meeting. In your memo, there is a second set of instructions as to how to sign in. The sooner you do that, the sooner we can get on with the in camera portion of our meeting.
With that, the meeting is suspended.
[Proceedings continue in camera]