Evidence of meeting #67 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jocelyne Therrien  External Monitor, As an Individual

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Ms. Normandin.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two minutes.

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

I'll go back to that transfer of criminal sexual offence cases to the civilian system. Justice Arbour was very clear that as long as they're allowed to prolong in concurrent jurisdiction, there will be this bouncing back and forth.

The idea was that the government needed to bring forward legislation, yet that's been delayed, although Justice Arbour was very clear. Did you see conversations and speak about those conversations in terms of that legislation coming forward quickly?

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

It's being definitely discussed and brought forward. I mean, it's—

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

But you don't necessarily have a timeline?

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

There are two issues. There's the application of the recommendation within Canada and external to Canada, so I think there are two different timelines for that.

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

In your next report, will there potentially be another timeline update on that?

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

There should be. I would hope the department has been able to clearly bring some legislative modifications forward.

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

I just wanted to ask this quickly as well. A lot of folks who survived through military sexual trauma were really disappointed to see the piece about the independent legal assistance program. They were happy to see there was coverage, yet they were shocked to see it wasn't covered for the Human Rights Tribunal, which a lot of these cases go to.

Are you seeing any progress on that or are there any concerns from your perspective?

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

I'm seeing progress on that. The whole complaints and grievance process is being radically transformed. The link-up with the CHRC is very important in all that. There have been a lot of meetings to engage that.

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

They've shown that the concern for—

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Mrs. Gallant, you have four minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The report says, "'right-fit candidates' (including increasing diversity) to be posted even if there is no direct correlation with the rank/occupation of the position available.”

That refers to the staff at the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School.

Does that sort of policy—that “right fit” is more important than the actual ability—apply to other parts of the military or is it just the staff school?

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

This seems to be a relatively new practice. They have clearly understood the message from Madam Arbour that the instructors have to be top-notch. You can't just be sending people there if you don't really know where to put them. They have to be the people who can really talk about the right character and so on.

I asked them what they were doing about this. They said that they are trying to ensure that the right people are sent. This is where they said that they have even gone to the point of being flexible enough that if it's not the right rank necessarily, but they know it's the right person, they will make arrangements to make it work.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

They would do that even though it's not necessarily the occupation of the person who's teaching.

How are you tracking the uptake of the Arbour recommendations amongst the supervisors of young female reservists?

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

I'm not directly involved in that.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

It's just not being done. They were left out, then.

June 20th, 2023 / 4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

Do you mean the reservists?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Yes, I mean the young female recruits particularly on the reservist end.

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

They may be captured in certain areas that I would be looking at, but per se, it's the people who are going through the regular force as opposed to reserve.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

With respect to Madam Arbour's suggestion that the military colleges abate their culture by referring to an orthodoxy that is incompatible with today's society, how is this being accomplished while preserving the traditions these institutions have passed on to generations of service members?

4:45 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

I'm sorry; I'm not sure I understand.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Madam Arbour suggested they have to update their culture because the orthodoxy of the culture is incompatible with today's society. How is this being accomplished while preserving the traditions and institutions that have been passed on for generations?

4:50 p.m.

External Monitor, As an Individual

Jocelyne Therrien

That's why there is an external panel that will review the two colleges to establish what's going right and not so right there.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

How would the probationary period for military candidates enrolled in military colleges impact the retention of the students going in there?