National Defence Committee on Nov. 30th, 2023

[Rob Chambers]

There are a series of administrative practices in place that the agency is using to try to facilitate that matching up of supply and demand. There are a lot of people in communities like Halifax and Kingston.... I could list pretty much every city where there's a military base.

There are landlords and landowners who are willing to work with the agency to help facilitate the matching of members to residences. There's all that sort of practice happening below the radar, so to speak. The agency is also working with the private sector to figure out exactly under what parameters the private sector would want to partner. We mentioned the RFIs that had gone out and just recently closed. We're analyzing those results and maybe I'll be able to talk further about those. That's just within the Crown housing piece.

On our side, one of our priorities is getting properties back into the community. That's getting surplus properties through the Canada Lands Company so they can be reintroduced in the local economy. I can talk more about that if you'd like.

The third line of effort is along the lines of what you're discussing. Within the federal family, who has the flexibility, the capability and the authority to do some of the things that you're talking about?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

We're going to have that plan, you said, by the end of this fiscal year. There should be a plan or strategy going ahead on how we're going to make that all happen. Is that a yes or no?

[Rob Chambers]

I did not say that, but—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Okay.

I thought Mr. Tremblay did.

[Serge Tremblay]

I did say that we were going to have a plan in place in accordance with a remit to Parliament at the end of next fiscal year, so we're looking at—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

That's the next fiscal year. Okay.

Just one last question for General Tattersall on the BGRS hack. We started receiving information in early October that the website was down. Members couldn't get funding and they were concerned. Then on about October 18, I was told that somebody had actually hacked in. It wasn't just that the website was down; it was hacked. I alerted the ombudsman the very next day. Then you put out, on CANFORGENS, the notice that you had known since September 29—for three weeks—that it was a hack.

Why didn't we notify members earlier that their personal financial information had been stolen? In those first three weeks, stuff could have gone sideways on them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

If I can just point out to the member that this is a four-minute round, not a four-minute round stretched to five and a half minutes. Please, respond very quickly, if you can.

[BGen Virginia Tattersall]

Yes, thank you very much for the question.

I'll just reiterate that at this point in time, we don't actually have that confirmation as to what exactly was taken and who may be impacted. That is in progress.

The department and, in fact, the government have communicated to members on at least two occasions, if my memory serves, as well as through internal forums, the fact that this has happened. Members have been advised as to what they should do as preliminary measures, such as keeping a watch on their banks or considering potentially changing their passwords.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

Mr. Collins, you have four minutes.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to focus on our tenants.

The agency is obviously a landlord. I wonder whether they've conducted any satisfaction surveys, in terms of the quality of housing provided to CAF members across the country and their opinion regarding the same.

[Serge Tremblay]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

We conduct cyclical customer satisfaction surveys. We recently received the most recent report.

As far as satisfaction about assets is concerned, it is a corollary to that. We don't specifically address those directly when we do our recapitalization. We have consistently been....

Actually, I don't have the results with me, so I won't quote anything.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I read that 85% of occupants are satisfied with their home.

Does that sound accurate?

[Serge Tremblay]

It was a trend comment, but the number is correct. I was going with a trend observation, but I wasn't ready to go there. I apologize.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Okay. Thank you for that.

In terms of the constructive criticism—let's call it—that comes back to the agency, what issues do you need to resolve, in order to get at some of the complaints coming from tenants, whether they're underhoused or...? Maybe they are a family of three and have two bedrooms. I know that much of your stock is like that of municipal non-profit housing providers. It was built post World War II, so it may not be accessible for someone living with special needs—a unit that's 40 or 50 years old.

Can you give us a glimpse of some of the issues you need to address as part of the surveys you take of tenants?

[Serge Tremblay]

Mr. Chair, the recapitalization program I referred to earlier is very much about modernizing that portfolio. It is an observation we see. This is 1950s stock housing: postwar and very small. It's three bedrooms but still only roughly 1,000 square feet. We see “how do we fit our size-five foot into this size-two shoe?” observations. We take that away. We are now accommodating the larger footprints with new housing, but we still have requirements for a smaller number of bedrooms per unit, to accommodate smaller family sizes.

Basically, right-sizing the portfolio is a challenge for us, because that involves recapitalization or replacement construction where we know we have to grow. There is a balancing act we also have to try to figure out, in terms of where to have the right bedroom count and location based on the demography, knowing the demography may change in the next 10 or 15 years and that our housing solutions are always 20, 30 or 40—if you look at our current stock, it's 90—years old.

There is a balancing act we have to accommodate there.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Chair, how am I for time?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have one minute.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Great.

I'm going to follow up on Mr. Bezan's question about the private sector.

For bases and wings where you have housing, are there any developments that are mixed—having members and those who are in the regular market, so to speak?

[Serge Tremblay]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. I need clarification.

Are you talking about a partnership in existence at this moment in time?

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

It's about a partnership in terms of tenancy and the private sector.

[Serge Tremblay]

We have, in some locations, rented off the private industry directly, on behalf of the member.

I will use Masset as a good example of that. There are no accommodations there. In order to ensure people who get posted there are in place, we lock in with local private landlords for those assets. That's the only place where we have this in place.

We also currently depend on PSPC in Yellowknife and Iqaluit locations.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Collins.

Madame Normandin, you have four minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Four...?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm such a generous chair.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

There was a report in the French-language media recently about a family with one child living in a very small military residence not at all suited to their needs, which was negatively impacting their desire to have another child. Because of the situation, they were considering having the father, a member of the military, change careers and look for civilian work.

That made me wonder if, when people are being relocated, more consideration should be given to a family's current situation as well as their needs a few years down the line.

Are those factors taken into account? If not, should they be?