Evidence of meeting #92 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commissioner.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
That year wouldn't actually be covered by COVID because the pandemic was only declared a couple of weeks before year-end in 2020.
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Let me take a look at the report and we'll come back. If we have omitted something that should be there, we will look to amend it.
February 12th, 2024 / 12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Thank you.
This is just a comment. We've had some talk in this round on Bill C-58, which this government brought in 2017, I think it was. The then commissioner described that law as a step backward, saying, “Rather than advancing access to information rights, Bill C-58 would instead result in a regression of existing rights.” She also said:
The government promised the bill would ensure the Act applies to the Prime Minister's and Ministers' Offices appropriately. It does not.
The government promised the bill would apply appropriately to administrative institutions that support Parliament and the courts. It does not.
The government promised the bill would empower the Information Commissioner to order the release of government information. It does not.
Those are the comments of the then commissioner, that Bill C-58 was actually a step backward.
On that third point about order-making power, the government you serve is presently refusing to comply with an order of the Information Commissioner and is taking the Information Commissioner to court. What is the rationale for that? How does that address openness and transparency?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
I'm sorry. Can I get a little more clarification on the link here to National Defence?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
What's the link here to National Defence in terms of the court case? Are you talking about the Information Commissioner—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
The Information Commissioner is pursuing legal action against the department, not the other way around, just so we're clear.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Right. Our struggles and.... Yes.
We are trying to work through that backlog, but as we've discussed, we have some files that are indeed late. The Information Commissioner feels that this is the best way for these files to get attention. That's certainly something the Information Commissioner is able to do.
Taylor, I don't know if you want to add more there.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Why not just comply with the Information Commissioner's orders?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Some of these files, as we mentioned, are really big and really dated. The information is just so big, it's a challenge to get through.
We have frequent dialogue with the Information Commissioner. On the one hand, I think the Information Commissioner is sympathetic in some ways, but we have a compliance issue and that's a fact.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
It sounded like Ms. Paxton wanted to get in on that.
Go ahead, if you'd like.
12:40 p.m.
Corporate Secretary, Department of National Defence
Thank you for the question.
We are working with the Office of the Information Commissioner daily to ensure that we meet our obligations. Obviously, our obligations are to adhere to the act. We understand that we need to do more, which is what we've been explaining here today.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Is litigation with the Information Commissioner not an admission of failure of openness and transparency?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
I would hope that we don't see these again in the future, but until we put some of the process change that we've talked about today in place, this department will continue to struggle on some of the bigger requests.
We will do our best, but I can't speak to the future.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'll go back to grievances, which Ms. Mathyssen touched on.
Can you break down for us the types of grievances you get? If you have the information, could you break down the percentages of each grievance?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Just to be clear, can I assume the member's question relates to grievances submitted on the military side? I ask because the public servants would go through the public servants' disclosure process.
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
I will turn to my colleagues. Actually, maybe I'll try some numbers and General Simoneau can tell me if I have them right.
My understanding is that roughly 35% relate to career management-type issues, around 28% to 29% relate to compensation of benefits and 13% relate to conduct and performance.
Now we'll have the expert correct me and see if I've misled the committee.
12:40 p.m.
MGen Erick Simoneau
Mr. Chair, the DM, as usual, is right on. I have nothing to add.
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Sorry, 35% of grievances are for career management, another 28% are for compensation of benefits and another 13% are for conduct and performance.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Okay, thank you.
I assume they would take different lengths of time to get a resolution depending on which type of grievance it is.
