National Defence Committee on Oct. 27th, 2025

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Who makes that decision?

[MGen Rob Holman]

The local base commander has the authority to make that decision.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

The base commander could deny them access to the base if he doesn't believe they have a case to come forward to investigate.

[MGen Rob Holman]

There would have to be a rationale for doing so—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Protecting a friend....

[MGen Rob Holman]

—that would outweigh the benefit to the public of having the investigation done. Certainly, the civilian police, if they felt like they were being interfered with, would have a number of mechanisms to deal with that, including going up the chain—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Should we not be defining that in the act, then? If we're no longer going to allow the military police and the national investigation service to actually do any of the investigation, shouldn't we be making sure that, within the act, there is access granted for all requests immediately, as defined by legislation, rather than at the discretion of a base commander?

[MGen Rob Holman]

I leave that to the wisdom of Parliament.

What I would say is that, with concurrent jurisdiction now, the act is silent, and the civilian justice system has access as required. Even where there is sole jurisdiction over murder, manslaughter and child abduction offences, I'm not aware that there have been any problems with the military police having access.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You said “military police”. I'm talking about civilian—

[MGen Rob Holman]

You're right. Civilian police is what I meant. I apologize.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

We did talk about how everything is going through the civilian system and about potential administrative measures taken, but if somebody is found guilty in the civilian system—for example, for sexual offences—wouldn't that also automatically trigger a court martial?

[MGen Rob Holman]

It would not be a court martial, but it would certainly give clear ability to release someone from the Canadian Forces under the release provisions dealing with misconduct.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Yes, Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

I think I was maybe being too polite and oblique when I was asking the question about the rape kits. Specifically, I wonder if you could reply in writing as to how we can ensure that if the victims are on exercise or if their base does not have a hospital, the evidence can be preserved by getting the procedure done as soon as possible. How is that going to happen?

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Can you provide that in writing? Thank you, Deputy Minister.

Ms. Romanado, you have up to five minutes.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here.

General Carignan, we hope that members never need this provision or this service. However, since 2021, those cases and investigations have been moving to the civilian system. It's been since 1998 that the Canadian Armed Forces has been investigating and prosecuting sexual assault. Is there a plan for communicating to the chain of command, the local police, etc., the new measures, once Bill C-11 receives royal assent?

For instance, if someone comes forward to a regular police officer somewhere in a small city in Canada and says, “I'm a member of the Canadian Armed Forces and would like to report a rape,” what is the provision for educating them that it's not the military that is actually now going to be responsible for the investigation and prosecution? Is there a communications plan—I guess that's my question—with respect to educating civilian authorities, and also victims, on that new process?

[Gen Jennie Carignan]

There are many folds to the question of communication. This new way of doing things has already been undertaken in many provinces. There have been numerous consultations done with the provincial authorities throughout the last few years as this change came about. This will definitely continue.

On our side, we will make sure that, internally to the Canadian Armed Forces, the new process is well understood, that the transition is occurring and that the chain of command knows where to go when complaints come forward. This process will definitely be extremely important as we move forward in the transition. The communication aspect of that will be absolutely key to success.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Deputy Minister Beck, you mentioned the 24-7 support line for members. Many of you on this panel kept mentioning members. My question is, what if the victim is no longer a member of the Canadian Armed Forces? What if they left because of sexual assault and, after this legislation passes, they decide to come forward? Do they still have, as veterans, access to the SMSRC or victim support or the VLO services?

[Stefanie Beck]

Absolutely, veterans, families as well, families of the victim, families of the members.... We know the communities that are involved are often deeply hurt by what has happened to their family member, and it's equally important that they have access to all of our structures in place to provide support.

Again, that 24-7 phone line is for family members as well.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

In terms of the comprehensive implementation, a plan where 36 of the 48 recommendations from Justice Arbour's external review have been addressed, I know that the goal is to complete all of them by the end of this year. This bill also includes strengthening the independence of the investigation and the prosecution. Could you elaborate a bit on why that's important in terms of building back trust?

[Gen Jennie Carignan]

Concerning recommendation five more specifically, this was the reasoning behind Justice Arbour's recommendation: to ensure that level of independence from the chain of command and the victims' agency over their own complaints. That is the reason for this proceeding in that way.

Also, there are many pieces to this. As we can see as well, the SMSRC is also independent from the chain of command and completely confidential. It is completely administered separately to ensure, again, privacy, and to ensure that victims have agency over their own process.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you so much.