Evidence of meeting #10 for National Defence in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was police.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
You're over time. I apologize.
Chris Malette, it's over to you. You have five minutes.
Liberal
Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Through you to the minister and I guess to the deputy minister, as we've heard, Bill C-66—
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Mr. Chair, he needs to turn on his mike, because there is no interpretation. The interpreter is saying that the comments are inaudible.
Liberal
Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON
Through you, Mr. Chair, this is for the Minister of National Defence and Deputy Minister Beck, I would think.
Bill C-66, as we've heard, started us down this path, and this is why this committee is now looking at the enhancements. Can we just delineate what exactly those enhancements and improvements are and the organic changes to the original? What are the significant items that would be highlighted in Bill C-11, as opposed to what was originally proposed in Bill C-66?
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
The bills are not that distinguishable, because they were considered to be appropriate and the balance had widespread support; all parties supported Bill C-66. I'm very much open to suggestions for improvement from the committee, as we just heard from Mr. Kibble. It's a good bill that is supported across Canadian society.
Liberal
Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON
On another issue, some concerns have been expressed that victims will have to use civilian victim services when moving into the civilian realm for the prosecutions. Will the appointment of victim's liaison officers materially improve the experience, and will the military support for victims or complainants in these cases travel into the civilian realm? Will they still have the same services, if you will, once the prosecution moves into the civilian realm?
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Yes. The victim's liaison officers, who will be receiving additional resources and getting more training, are contemplated under this in making sure we're building psychologically safe and inclusive workplaces, for example. Not only that, we're also amending access to VLOs, as they're called, for third parties who represent victims. Maybe a victim says they don't really want to come out of their place right now and they'd rather have a third party act for them to get the assistance they need. They can absolutely play a role with respect to the prosecutions and the investigations in civil society.
The other thing to keep in mind is that we have a very well-established sexual misconduct support and resource centre inside the department now, which is very much helping to strengthen support for survivors of sexual misconduct. That body, the SMSRC, now offers independent legal assistance and in-house counsel at no cost, which is also a needed improvement to give people comfort and give them the support they need.
Liberal
Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON
Hand in glove with that, what guarantees are there that complainants will have access to the same amount of resources, especially around, as we discussed, mental health services and trauma-related resources that are currently in place?
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
The Canadian Armed Forces is investing significantly, going forward, in mental health services at all 36 of our medical clinics; I believe that is the number. This is something we're seized with. It is part and parcel of the need to invest in our people to make sure they have the supports they need, a place to go to and counsellors to speak to, like mental health advocates and experts. This is part of the improvement we're making with the new reinvestment in the Canadian Armed Forces.
Liberal
Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON
Our armed forces, as you said earlier, need to have a 21st century workplace. Overall, how will this bill impact the cultural change inside the CAF and recruitment? Has that been at all considered as well?
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
It has. The two most important words related to our objective with Bill C-11 are “trust” and “transparency”, and we need to enhance both. We need to make sure our Canadian Armed Forces is fit for purpose for the 21st century and fit for purpose for the women and men of the forces.
It's very important, as I said in a speech last Friday to 500 individuals, and it is time for us to expunge this behaviour from the Canadian Armed Forces. We need a high-performing force; they're high-performing now, and they need to be even more high-performing going forward. You cannot have that if you have lingering trust problems in the system. You cannot have that if there isn't a predictable, transparent pathway to deal with this kind of conduct, which is exactly what we're trying to address.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Malette.
Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, you have two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, I have two questions about the transitional provision regarding the transfer of ongoing investigations to civilian authorities within 60 days.
Has any thought been given to measures to ensure that there will be no delays or gaps in protection for victims?
In addition, survivors have often complained that they later suffered reprisals and intimidation. In a number of cases, there were retaliatory measures against them. Have any measures been considered to protect them from reprisals after the ongoing investigations have been transferred to civilian authorities?
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Those are both excellent questions.
I'm not in a position to answer the first one, but the judge advocate general may be able to answer it.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Since we will have time with the other witnesses after your testimony, I'll be able to come back to it.
While you are still here, I would like you to answer the second question about measures against reprisals.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
I don't know exactly. We'll see what happens when Bill C‑11 is passed, as we hope it will be, and the system is in place and formalized. We're not really in a position to predict what will happen, but we are listening if the committee has any recommendations for minimizing the risk of problems after the transfer of ongoing investigations.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Great, that's duly noted.
Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Minister, there's one aspect that hasn't been talked about as much in the bill. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't a focus of the major recommendations or of the debate, but is still good news. I'm talking about the sexual misconduct support and resource centre that was set up.
How will we ensure that the victim support services remain independent from the military hierarchy?
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
The deputy minister just reminded me that she is responsible for the centre. I would add that Mr. Gravel, who's here today, is the person in charge of the centre. He could answer your question.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Mr. Gravel, I think you'll be here for the second part of the meeting, so we'll have time to come back to this question, but I'll still give you the opportunity to answer now.
Martin Gravel Chief Operating Officer, Sexual Misconduct Support and Resource Centre, Department of National Defence
Thank you for the question.
Bill C‑11 doesn't propose any changes to the support measures or resources provided by the centre. Whether it's in the military or civilian justice system, the centre will provide the same resources and support measures. The centre's independence and the support it provides will apply in either case. The same services will be available.
Liberal
