Evidence of meeting #17 for National Defence in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
We are returning.
Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, do you have anything to add?
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Yes, Mr. Chair.
Members have convinced me to withdraw my amendment to the amendment and to move another one.
The subamendment to the amendment, which, I would remind the committee, addressed two issues, once again proposes to keep the part about the Access to Information Act but now proposes that the documents be produced “before January 15, 2026” rather than “as soon as possible”.
That is the new subamendment that is on the table.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
(Subamendment withdrawn)
Shall we proceed with the subamendment as stated by Monsieur Savard-Tremblay?
(Subamendment agreed to)
Back to the witnesses.... Are we proceeding?
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
No, we have to vote on the full amendment and motion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
Is there unanimous consent?
(Amendment as amended agreed to)
(Motion as amended agreed to)
Okay.
We are back to the witnesses, and I believe, Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, that was your time, so thank you for proceeding.
I am going to go to a Conservative member, and that will be Mr. Anderson.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Ms. Beck, the modernization strategy assumes 8,500 new regular force and 8,500 new reserve personnel by 2040. Has your department modelled whether the current recruiting and training pipeline is capable of generating that number?
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
I'll turn to the vice-chief to add more, but that is absolutely what we are seized with.
I would say that it's not just as simple, in fact, as recruiting more people. It's making sure they have the equipment they need, the training grounds they need and the housing and benefits. This is a complex process that marches together, so it's not just a question—
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Indeed. Do you have an actual plan to do that?
Conservative
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Not at this minute, but we can certainly come back and go into more detail.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Can we have that sent to us, then? Thanks so much.
General Kelsey, “Inflection Point 2025” makes it clear that Canada can't currently deploy and sustain even a single warfighting brigade, let alone a division. What is the timeline to grow the force to division scale?
Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
The first step is aggregating the combat divisions, as you alluded to with regard to “Inflection Point”, but they are hollow. We have the ability to deploy only one at a time if we aggregate the people and equipment as one. The army commander has quite a bit of work to do. He has a solid plan, but it requires detailed investment over time.
To your earlier question, he has plotted it out. This includes equipment, where those folks will be located and all the systems that will enable the individuals and families.
Conservative
Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
He has a timeline, but that's the aggregation of the structure we have. What he's working on now with his leadership team are the specifics of when the manoeuvre division will be combat ready, the continental division and, more importantly, the sustainment division. Those are the three—
Conservative
Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
He does, but we need to actually plot through the specific investments.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Okay.
Expanding the CAF is impossible without retaining the trained force. What's the current attrition rate, and how does that compare with your forecasted attrition when modelling the force growth?
Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
That's a huge consideration. Our attrition when compared with our Five Eyes partners is actually better, but we're not satisfied. We plot individually how many people were projected to retire or move on, but it's only as good as the package of compensation and the ability of people joining to use the equipment they aspire to or believe in. It's the complete picture. We're spending as much energy on retention of the talent we have and cultivating that as we are on getting folks in the door.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
In terms of the net effect, then, is the force at this moment actually expanding, or is it degrading?