Evidence of meeting #18 for National Defence in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ukraine.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Excellency Andrii Plakhotniuk  Ambassador of Ukraine to Canada

The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa

Thank you, Ambassador.

Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON

I have these last words: Slava Ukraini.

Andrii Plakhotniuk

Heroyam slava.

The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa

Monsieur Simard, you have two and a half minutes, sir.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Thank you very much.

Ambassador, you emphasized air defence. I'd like to understand in somewhat more practical terms how Canada can help you in this area. In answer to questions from my colleagues, you also talked about training that received support from the federal government.

When you talk about air defence, are you speaking primarily of drones? Is that what you're referring to, or are you referring to somewhat more conventional forces?

How can Canada help you? You were talking earlier about Canada's expertise. I'd like to know how we can help you in practical ways.

Andrii Plakhotniuk

First, when it comes to air defence, we have the PURL initiative that I mentioned, which is about American-made, sophisticated defence materiel that has been purchased with the support of all of our partners, who combined their efforts and financed this defence materiel.

Another thing that can be done.... We are talking about air defence systems that are produced not only by the United States but also by European countries, systems like NASAMS and the SAMP/T, which are produced by Norway, Italy, France and so forth.

What can Canada and our partners do? We have a number of international initiatives that can be supported financially in order to produce more, because timing is the thing that really matters in this war. If we can produce fast and produce more, it means we will be able to save more lives of ordinary Ukrainians.

However, it's not only about drones. Drones have their own specific mission, but they are also used—interceptor drones—to target Russian Shaheds, which are constantly attacking Ukrainian civilian cities.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

I won't hide the fact that I'm not very familiar with strategic military components. However, I assume that the technologies you use within existing strategies and models are often similar. You don't reinvent the wheel every time.

Increasing production implies financial assistance rather than technical support, financial assistance that lets you produce the equipment you need faster by having it manufactured at some location or other, but perhaps not necessarily in Canada. Can you give us some guidance on that?

The most effective way to help you would be to provide financial support that you could use to secure more air defence components. That is my understanding.

Andrii Plakhotniuk

Financial support is one side. Technological support is also very important.

I would like to mention one figure here. Throughout this war, the Ukrainian armed forces have mastered 600 different types of defence materiel. When we receive this equipment, we need to have enough knowledge in order to master it. That means support when it comes to the technological sphere is also important. When we receive sophisticated weaponry, we need this kind of knowledge. We need to be trained and then be able to use it to the best of the defence materiel's capability.

The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa

Thank you.

Ms. Gallant, you have up to five minutes.

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

Thank you.

Your Excellency, aside from the Kardesa system currently under construction, does Ukraine have any undersea cables presently?

Andrii Plakhotniuk

Undersea cables....

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

I mean telecommunications, like Vodafone. Is it all terrestrial?

Andrii Plakhotniuk

We probably have some communications undersea, but I'm not the expert in this sphere.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

There haven't been instances, then, of these cables being cut and communications being disrupted in that way.

Andrii Plakhotniuk

I don't have this exact information.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

All right.

How does Ukraine assess itself in combatting Russia's grey fleet?

Andrii Plakhotniuk

In combatting Russian what?

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

The grey fleet.

Andrii Plakhotniuk

The grey fleet is the shadow fleet. Is that right?

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

Right.

Andrii Plakhotniuk

This is one of the top priority issues for Ukraine when it comes to working with our international partners on sanctions. We started to witness this in 2014 when Russians started transporting our grain and our other materials produced in temporarily occupied territories to other countries, trying to conceal that they were produced in Ukraine. It was a very important thing we were working on with our partners.

When it comes to the shadow fleet, we are exchanging information among the sanctions teams from different governments, especially when it comes to the active members of the sanctions coalitions, like Canada and European partners. We share this knowledge. We exchange information on what types of vessels were spotted, what types of vessels didn't have responders and what types of vessels were not properly insured by international insurance companies.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

In terms of cyber-disruption, what new prevailing threats has Ukraine encountered that Canada needs to be ready for?

Andrii Plakhotniuk

When it comes to cyber-attacks, this is a regular thing for Ukraine, which has been targeted by Russian cyber-attacks for more than a decade. In our opinion, one of the effective ways, apart from having enough and efficient software...is certainly international co-operation. It should be intensified between the relevant services and relevant agencies when it comes to cyber-attacks and how to counter them. The more effective this co-operation is and the more effective our software is, the better we are prepared. It's a constant process.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON

Russian drones are being launched offshore from their shadow fleet, and they've been causing chaos in major European airports. Can you give us any insight into how Canada should prepare ourselves should we see the same operations happening on our continent?

Andrii Plakhotniuk

We try to support our European partners and friends to the best of our abilities. I would refer to the decision of the Ukrainian authorities and the President to send a team of experts to Denmark to support them in how to deal with the situations of these drones appearing in their airspace. When it comes to all our partners, I think the best way forward for us now—and I think it's being done—is to share information and knowledge on how to counteract them if such situations could happen in our partner states.