Evidence of meeting #28 for National Defence in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was minerals.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
I'm sorry, Ms. Gallant.
Ms. Lapointe, it's over to you for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you, Ms. Pekarik, for appearing here today. We've heard a lot about the importance of critical minerals to Canada's security and economy. From your experience in resource policy, what are the key factors that determine whether a project moves from concept to production?
Economics and Resource Policy, As an Individual
Project economics is crucial. First nations partnerships are absolutely critical. The vast majority of the Yukon is covered by modern treaties with first nations. We have somewhat of a different universe in other parts of the country, like British Columbia. Certainly, on equity participation, or actually ownership, we had a producing copper mine that was on first nations category A settlement land, so the first nation owned the mines and minerals. The administrative structure, which had been administered by the Yukon government, worked very effectively. Royalties were payable under the existing royalty regime to the first nation. That was a successful model for participation. The training and employment opportunities, as well as equity participation and first nations participation in the pre-assessment, assessment and permitting processes are the critical ingredients for getting to go.
I would suggest that this work, in terms of bundling the pipeline to finance Canada's increased defence commitment, provides a potentially very good foundation to engage with first nations. This is the pipeline of projects that we need to meet our objective. Let's engage on the whole bundle of projects as opposed to sequentially, individually, dealing with them. Let's have a complete framework.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
From an economic and a policy perspective, what makes a critical minerals supply chain truly resilient beyond having the resources in the ground?
Economics and Resource Policy, As an Individual
From my understanding in terms of meeting the defence interests, the vulnerability is not only in the production but also in the processing and refining, and securing for disruptions, which is what stockpiles are all about. We have seen this very recently with the Beaver Brook antimony, for instance, but we're also seeing it now in the Middle East with respect to disruptions for mineral fuels for oil and gas.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
In terms of the full mining value chain, including processing and recycling, where do you see the biggest opportunities for Canada to strengthen the full system in a real and practical way?
Economics and Resource Policy, As an Individual
They are being touched on in these hearings. Along the value chain, there are many opportunities. There are opportunities in academia and research and development, and in technology and commercial deployment. There are many steps along this value chain. Reprocessing of tailings is certainly much closer at hand, for instance. There are going to be some complexities, potentially, that are not the same as those that greenfield development presents, but they may be more timely. There are many opportunities. NRCan has the role and the function to map all the projects in Canada, and now potentially remapping them around the defence imperative is the next step for them.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
We're certainly seeing an increasingly uncertain global environment. How important is it for Canada to have greater control over the different stages of the critical minerals value chain? Where would this matter most in practice?
Economics and Resource Policy, As an Individual
As your colleague across the floor was alluding to, the processing and refining is a key factor. I believe it's 70%, on average, located in China for processing across the spectrum of critical minerals. Simply producing the minerals or the concentrates is not sufficient; filling the gap in refining and processing is also important.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
I appreciate it, Ms. Lapointe.
Mr. Savard‑Tremblay, you have two and a half minutes, sir.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Pekarik, I'm going to ask you a number of questions and raise a number of points. You can summarize in your answer.
First of all, the Yukon Conservation Society has said that development in Yukon is not sustainable. It has said Yukon's mining system does not meet sustainable development standards, that the mines are bankrupt and abandoned, and that those mines have left a lot of environmental contamination. That is the first point I wanted to raise.
Now I'm going to draw a parallel with consultations with the first nations in that region.
First of all, would you say that their free and informed consent was obtained?
Next, let's look back in time. In June, a major leaching system failure caused significant contamination at the Eagle Gold mine in Yukon. In 2025, the release of water containing copper and other contaminants was allowed, even though it exceeded regulatory limits. In light of that, can you say that the first nation that was a victim of this incident was consulted?
Economics and Resource Policy, As an Individual
Under the modern treaty framework in the Yukon, there is participation, and a single review regime was developed, which includes full first nations participation.
I am going to have to demur on any details regarding the Eagle gold project. Because of my oath of office as a retired public servant of the Yukon government, I do not have the privilege of discussing this project.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
I find that interesting since you are here and have a fairly clear idea of development in the region. You're saying there's a good consultation process. What's unfortunate though is that you can't speak to the example I'm giving you, although there were clearly very significant breaches and victims. Forgive me, but I have to say that's a bit of an easy answer.
Economics and Resource Policy, As an Individual
I'm not trying to give you an easy response. I respect the oath I took as a public servant, so I have to defer to that.
I observe that there is a consultation framework set out as part of the Yukon environmental and socio-economic assessment process. This doesn't mean that all the consultation and interests behind that consultation—the interests of first nations—are necessarily going to be fulfilled in the assessment process. There are interests in employment and training. There are interests in terms of equity participation. Those are the kinds of things that early engagement and partnership are critical to ensuring.
Liberal
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Thank you very much.
You've been watching this for most of your working life—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
Mr. Anderson, you probably have only one question. I just realized the time.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
I have one question.
How would you suggest changing the permitting timelines, which we already know are slow and costing us investment in the mining sector?
Economics and Resource Policy, As an Individual
What I have proposed by developing this pipeline.... There's progression here. Developing the timeline for securing our fiscal capacity to finance defence is step one. Putting together the schedule to generate government revenue is step two. Transmitting it to the Major Projects Office....
Right now, the Major Projects Office is still forming and norming. With the directives to the Major Projects Office to achieve certain targets for timelines and for execution, and there are a number of measures.... As I said, these things are not unknown in the assessment and permitting universe, from the equivalency to getting rid of stop-go timelines.
We have timelines for project assessment, but then we have stop-go on the clock. That's what we've developed around this. It effectively adds to your timelines.
It's about making sure that the scope of project assessment is focused on the project itself and the features critical to achieving environmental protection and socio-economic objectives. Focus on those things and the principle of using the best available knowledge to complete an assessment and regulatory process, as opposed to engaging in multi-year research programs.
Those kinds of things will allow us to more effectively meet expedited timelines for meeting the resource management and regulatory requirements.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
Thank you, Ms. Pekarik. I appreciate your being before us to talk about the importance of the defence industrial strategy, critical minerals and our overall ability to protect our sovereignty , as well as to stimulate economic growth and take advantage of what Canada has to offer.
Before we go in camera, does the committee agree that the parliamentary interns can stay for our in camera component? If the committee agrees, it is optional to amend the routine motion governing staff presence at in camera meetings to include the PIPs. Is that okay too?
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Mr. Chair, since I haven't heard the interpretation yet, I can't answer that question.
Liberal
Tim Watchorn Liberal Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC
Do you agree that the interns can stay for the in camera portion of the meeting?